To do, or not to do...looking for advice re competitive teen and new pony

[Deliaskis]

Hi, have had useful wisdom and food for thought from here in the past so wanted to share current dilemma and see what people think...apologies for long post.

DD (12, very nearly 13) had been competing her very feisty whizzy 12.2 Welshie for 3 seasons doing SJ and a bit of XC, and doing very well. RC champion, placings at national champs, a couple of early placings at BS juniors in this last season. Her and the pony were a great team, went everywhere together and knew each other very well. Backstory only to provide context of DD being comfortable with competing generally.

Pony has now gone, and we have new bigger pony, 14.1 small warmblood type. He's 8 but was only backed last year so quite green generally, but we got him in June and whilst we had both ponies we took it very easy with him, but did take him to a couple of RC 'starter' (70cm) ODEs and a dressage and a SJ comp (80 and 90), and he handled it all brilliantly, earning a couple of ribbons and essentially very clean performances at each event. He has bags of scope and happily jumps over 1m at home and at arena hires, but he is green, for sure. DD ultimately wants to start eventing, but knows that it is not something you can just pick up quickly.

Over winter we have done plenty of clinics and arena hires etc. and he's looking good and building confidence. I guess at this point I'm looking towards next season and wondering whether we should: a) have a go at everything and see what happens, or b) deliberately keep it very low key and see it as a non-competitive year and not challenge either of them particularly, just get them used to being together, maybe a couple of low level RC comps, but nothing more.

With old pony I would probably have chosen option A because confidence wasn't an issue for her at all, she was more 'HERE I AM' and would throw herself at things and wasn't too bothered if it didn't go well. This one is a lot more careful, I think not naturally bold/brave but is responsive when DD tells him what is needed. He is very honest.

So my question is which route....is it a) go for it, no reason not to, or b) steady as you go, don't push, don't challenge, there is no rush.

I've had very different advice from different instructors, hence why I'm gathering my thoughts before really making a decision. DD would be in favour of having fun, but she is quite competitive at heart, and is excited about the future with new pony, just conscious that it is a new partnership. Neither she nor I are even a tiny bit worried about 'handling' him...he doesn't pull and is quite finely built, and fairly chilled in temperament, so him being 'too much' for DD isn't a factor here.

Thoughts?

Just from reading the tone of your thread, it very much sounds like you’re already thinking plan b is the better option, which I agree with. Why put their future at risk for the sake of one years getting to know each other and confidence building? Also why can’t it be something more in the middle? It doesn’t have to be between ‘don’t really challenge them at all’, and ‘throw everything at them all at once’.

Definitely build confidence together, it's so easy to dent it. Pony is green, she will be able to go carefully and be proud of what she achieves even if it takes longer than someone with a 'ready made' pony. She can see how he progresses during the year, better to be careful to start with than over face him. Don't rule out competition, just have different expectations. It's hard when she maybe sees others bombing around and showing off rosettes. She will ultimately do a better job.

Definitely option B to build their confidence in each other up together. Nothing worse than over facing the pony and ending up with issues down the line.

I'd start slowly and see how it goes. No reason why you can't go to competitions and compete for experience rather than expecting to be placed everytime.
DD is old enough to understand that she now has an inexperienced pony so won't get the same results as before for a little while but if she educates him well the results should follow again.

See this has already been really useful, because you have told me that I already knew the right answer really! And so true that I guess it doesn't have to be completely one or the other, it can be something in between.

You raise an interesting point @horseymum about not being a ready made pony....I wonder if the reason I felt this was a dilemma at all is because I didn't get a ready made pony. We kind of had enough money for one, the typical 14.2 sporty Connie type, already out doing it all....and were scheduled to view a couple, then we went to see this one who wasn't at all what we had planned, but appeared to have heaps of potential, just no experience (but a LOT cheaper, making it easier for getting all the new kit a new pony needs, and for running two over summer). So I guess I took a gamble and feel perhaps underneath guilty that it will be harder for DD for this first year, although I think ultimately it will be far better for her to have built something with him together, than to just have a push button seasoned competition pony. But it doesn't stop me feeling a bit bad that she is sort of 'missing out' on this season a bit. Even though she isn't really!

Sorry that all sounds a bit silly and dramatic....I know we are very fortunate to have any pony currently fit and well etc. First pony was also a huge gamble and that paid off MASSIVELY, but I guess one always wonders about the 'easier' option.

DD is plucky though, and does understand this might be more of a slow burn. It's me more than her I think, who is thinking this must be a bit of a comedown for her. But....plan B it is....it's the right thing to do.

Sorry for treating MN like horsemum therapy!

Does it have to be all or nothing, can you not start out slowly with plan B but step up gradually if things are going well over the course of the season, with the option to keep things low key for longer if you feel they need more time? Can you start out at relatively low key local venues for unaffiliated stuff, the kind of place that's flexible enough you can enter for the clear round but if they fly round happily then do the 80cms, or if there's an issue do the clear round again (or just go home) without feeling you've lost? Or enter the 70/80cms but have the option to do the next class up as well depending on how it's going on the day? I think its fine to have goals in mind and work towards them, it will just need your DD to have the maturity to recognise that sometimes progress isn't always totally linear and she may need to have patience and accept some bumps in the road from time to time, which is an excellent life lesson BTW? I do agree that with green youngsters or new combinations slow and steady wins the race, but you do have to keep asking the question (in a positive and safe way of course) or you won't ever see progress. It's not a disaster if they have the odd pole or stop or lower score IMO, you learn from failure as much as you do from success sometimes.

With the ultimate aim being eventing it would probably be good to make an early goal to get out XC schooling as soon as the courses open up/XC clinics start up (just to pop small stuff and see how he reacts to ditches, steps and water), to me with this type of horse that tells you a lot about where they're at mentally, they can suddenly find a lot more boldness even if rough round the edges or they can really find it all overwhelming and scary, if the latter it's not to say eventing is off the table but he'll probably need a lot more time and patience whereas if fundamentally he enjoys it and is prepared to give the XC a go, then you can feel more confident cracking on even if their dressage or SJ aren't good enough for top scores their first season?

Basically came here to say the same thing!

Yes we've done plenty of XC schooling on a surface and on grass before the weather went bad (we had a second tryout on grass over grassroots XC before we bought him), and he has responded every time a question has been asked. He won't yet jump into water, but at DD's level it's not usually required, it's normally jump, then enter water, and maybe jump out, so I'm not worried yet. Steps he's good with. Ditches he will jump with a rail, and will jump a false ditch, but is slightly sticky and reluctant at a full ditch yet (but does go over it). But he does show us more every time out. I was worried about his lack of natural boldness generally, but what was reassuring in the summer is when DD took him round our RC XC (2 little comps at 70cm over 1.8km, her first time ever riding a full course), he did seem to find a good flow and became quite nicely forward and keen. Both times he swerved at the same fence (a chair that does look a bit intimidating and is in an awkward position) but jumped it second time and more importantly picked up his rhythm again quickly. The stop didn't seem to rattle him. One of the times they were held on course for a fall and again as soon as they were clear to continue he got back into the game. So I think he has it in him....at DD's level anyway, he's only 14.1 and she is still young so they will probably max out at 80 anyway.

Long response to whether he will find more boldness or find it all really scary....I would say from what we have seen so far, he finds it. And we are near to Somerford so have been out to proper XC tech a few times....3 big linked arenas with water etc. It's not just a few rustic fences in a SJ arena.

Sorry I do go on!

Do you have a regular instructor that your DD trains with? Could you have a chat with them about long term goals and goals for the year ahead? They will obviously be seeing the combination on the ground, and be able to advise better than anyone on a forum. What's right "on paper" may not always be the right answer!

You say you've had differing advice from different instructors, I do sometimes think involving lots of different instructors can confuse the issue. If you can find one person you really trust, often it's easier to take their guidance.

Older horses can progress relatively quickly, but I understand why you don't want to overface them as a combination. I don't see any reason why your daughter shouldn't be doing ODEs at 70/80 by the end of the season, if that's what she wants to do? I definitely wouldn't rush things or want to overface the pony, but I also wouldn't set an arbitrary limit now! I'd say have a look at what people do with ex-racers etc within a season- I do think it's different to taking out a 5yo where you do also need to be careful with them physically.

I guess for me I'd probably want to do some "proper" XC schooling when the ground is drier- ideally linking multiple fences together etc, and take it from there? If that goes well, surely no reason not to enter a low key 70?

With showjumping, I agree with the plan to go out unaff, enter at a lower height, and then when you've seen/jumped round the course, you can always do another round- or if it's technically difficult and lots of spooky fillers, you can choose not to do that?

Basically, I'd probably be playing it by ear on a weekly/monthly basis rather than making a full plan for the season now!

Well that all sounds more positive in your later posts than your initial ones, they seem to have done absolutely brilliantly together already considering a new partnership and a relatively green pony. I don't think you need to assume there'll be a massive backwards step or anything like that, the advice to start small-ish and build from there rather than chucking them in straight at the deep end stands but there's no need to avoid challenging or stretching them from the sounds of things.

The good news is your DD should be coming up to the age where she can start to really understand the concept of improving the quality and technicality of what she's doing (in competitions as well as when schooling at home) and since she's got a less experienced pony to bring on she should get the importance of this - when they're littler it's hard to get them to see past the tangible results (so if their pony cantered a lap of the arena what does it matter if they were falling in or if they jumped the fence cleanly why should they care about rhythm and balance or the fact they were clinging round the pony's neck like a monkey etc.), and the only thing that motivates them is jumping higher or going faster - a lot of teaching/coaching seems to actively encourage this results based mentality too. The little kids on my yard SJ at a lowish level and their lessons seem very much on the side of 'get from one side to the other any old how', which I guess is more fun and encouraging for them than lots of technical corrections, but when you see them allowed to go round a whole course on the wrong leg or repeatedly not seeing the stride so they're taking flyers or chipping in, getting left behind or ahead of the movement, but because their pony is very experienced and honest they go clear anyway and the only comment from the instructor is 'kick on' or 'well done', you do wonder how they're going to get the fundamentals in place or what would happen if they had to ride a greener or trickier pony or a more technical/bigger course. But there's plenty of time for them to learn of course.

It sounds as though your DD can already jump at her desired height pretty successfully so I think it's all now about working through the scales of training to be able to help the pony through the more technical or challenging types of courses and fences - confidence can be quite elusive in both horses and people but personally I think the good old basics of being well balanced, strong and fit enough to do what's being asked of them, between leg and hand and responsive off the aids, best possible quality of canter etc sets you up for success and success begets confidence which in turn begets more success. A really good, trusted teacher who knows how and when to push them and when to consolidate and encourage is so helpful too (and agree that while occasionally fresh eyes are nice it's best to have consistent main input from one person or it gets confusing).

It's really hard to say without seeing your daughter and her pony but when my son was exactly this age he got a 6 year old 14.2, it was the easter holidays and he was about to turn 13. They had a busy, low key season doing 80-90cm SJ and XC plus lots of pony club. The following year they were out at 100 BE and qualified for the Open PC Champs (1.10). The following year they were competing in pony trials, so, it's amazing what kids and ponies can do with a bit of encouragement and help.

My DD had a 14h wizzy pony at that age. We spent a good 2-3 years just doing fun things, fun rides, low level competitions, Pony Club trainings (we went to everything it was pretty cheap compared to individual lessons), Pony Club Camp, masses of days out hacking (she was not at home all day ) with her friend, then she got into PC competitions and ended up doing BD and BS

Thanks so much for perspectives, it's been really helpful to read and clarify my own thinking as well as take on board things I hadn't thought of.

It's finally stopped raining here, which always helps pony people think more positively about the days and weeks ahead!

1. have a weekly lesson with an instructor you trust. You mention getting different answers from different instructors and I think you need to pick one and trust them. If they see dd and her pony every week they will be better placed to advise.
2. Join pony club and get out regularly to rallies and camps. This gives you a broader range of instruction and lots of cheap fun opportunities to get experience.
3. compete regularly but well within their capabilities and in all three disciplines. This will give you things to work on (like the chair fence) with your instructor.
4. slowly raise the competition level.
5. i wouldn’t go too slowly as your dd may only get two years with a slight 14.1 pony. I’ve seen so many girls shoot us at this stage and move onto horses.

Start with low key stuff - if the pony goes well over 60cm of whatever height you are jumping, then perhaps do a clear round at the next height before the competition starts. After a few months (assuming you compete most weekends) she should be ready to start at the next level, There is no point hanging around jumping small stuff if they are capable of going to the next step. She will outgrow him before you can blink, so don't waste time, but equally, don't rush them out of their comfort zone.

An experienced event rider told me invest your time at the lower levels and then you’ll fly up. It’s about building confidence and getting the horse and rider as balanced as possible. It will be so rewarding for your daughter when they get going. Good luck! x

Oh no don't talk of her outgrowing him, we are still very emotional about moving the Welshie on (but she's having a whale of a time in her new home!). I think with her I always felt the pressure of time because DD was only just 10 when we got her and 12.5 when we sold her....I knew she was a short term pony. This one I was hoping for a bit longer! I'm a great believer in getting the 'right' size not something they will grow into (but might scare them to death in the meantime).

Thank you again for further perspectives.