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The tack room

Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

When to wear spurs ?

23 replies

CrazyTimes123 · 03/12/2023 09:37

I have a lovely horse who I have regularly lessons on. We are working at Prelim and are aiming for PetPlans in the summer.
However, horse is so sluggish in the school ! He starts off pretty forward and tracks up nice, and his frame and contact are improving, but he gets less off my leg as the lesson goes on, which affects outline and he goes very head high and argumentative. My legs go to jelly they are so tired in the second half of the lesson. I don’t nag him with my leg (I’ve been taught not to !), and I carry a whip to back up my leg but he either ignores it or reacts then reverts back to sluggish.

Horse is 8 and carrying a bit of weight.

Is it time for spurs ? Or something else ?

OP posts:
twistyizzy · 03/12/2023 09:43

Before spurs get the weight off him. Horses who are behind the leg need less leg and hot horses need more leg. Sounds like you need to work on your fitness and stamina too before moving to spurs.

weaselwords · 03/12/2023 09:48

Is he your horse, or someone else’s? If yours, he sounds like he’d be happier having a break from schooling and getting some weight off him. Do something a bit more exciting and mix it up a bit for him. If he’s not your horse and you are just having lessons on him it will be much more difficult to get him more forward but in your warm up, you can focus on getting an instant response from him.

Whu · 03/12/2023 09:49

You to need to work on his fitness and dropping his weight. If he starts off well and then becomes ‘argumentative’ there is a reason for it and most likely is that he is getting tired and fed up. Horses don’t argue they react to situations and he is trying to communicate with you that he isn’t feeling good after a certain amount of time. Using spurs won’t give him more energy or fitness.

Are you mixing up your lessons with lots of hacking, hill work, gallops etc? That sort of things builds up fitness. Cut down the lesson time and increase the hacking. If you have hydrotherapy treadmill near you that can be great for fitness without pressure on the joints. Has he been checked recently by physio, dentist etc that he has no pain? Is he getting plenty of turn out? What is his feed like?

I hate spurs personally. I know on professionals they can be used as an additional aid but I have seen cuts and injuries to horses from either nagging or just going too hard with the leg. I couldn’t do that. I don’t ride any more but did for 32 years until my beloved horse died. I could ride my ODE horse in a head collar when I wanted because our connection came from training, mutual understanding and not relying on tools. I’ve always hated seeing horses in draw rains, standing martingales, flash, harsh bits, spurs etc. If that sort of equipment is needed your horse needs training and / or medical attention IMHO.

Good luck with your training together and hope you have years of happy riding.

greenacrylicpaint · 03/12/2023 09:49

seems like he is getting tired.
is it worse in summer or winter? (thinking allergies, hay/dust is pretty common).

twistyizzy · 03/12/2023 09:50

Also stop schooling for a while and just get him forwards on hacks. Or hunting, hunting never fails to get them forwards!

Startingagainandagain · 03/12/2023 09:59

I would never use spurs on a horse.

Instead make him lose weight, have him checked by the vet to make sure there isn't something going on and improve your own fitness so you don't get tired so easily. As other have said he might also be bored and you need to vary what you do in lessons/hacks.

CrazyTimes123 · 03/12/2023 10:02

Im not brave enough for hunting ! It’s meant to fix everything tho so maybe I need to get braver.

He’s my horse, I’ve had him 6 months and came very overweight, and is slowly trimming down. He’s on chaff & pony nuts but only a small amount after work as a reward. He’s on limited turnout at the moment, but limitless hay.

I arena school twice a week, one being the actual lesson. The rest is lunge & hacking. I would like more hacking but it’s so difficult this time of year and only the weekends are possible.

OP posts:
Postapocalypticcowgirl · 03/12/2023 10:09

It sounds like he's still not fully fit? How long are your lessons/schooling sessions? Maybe you need to keep them a bit shorter for now, and aim for less good work, whilst working on his fitness in other ways.

I know this time of year is very tricky to build fitness, but I'd probably be focusing on hacking and hill work as much as possible!

I'm not against spurs, but I'm not sure if they will help much if he's not responding due to tiredness?

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 03/12/2023 10:11

I have nothing against spurs used correctly but they aren't the answer to your issue.

I would get him a bit fitter and mix up his workload a bit more so he is more interested and energetic but at the same time work on how you use your aids so that he becomes more responsive to a smaller aid and you aren't having to use loads of leg to maintain the pace.

There is a great podcast called "Let's Talk Horses with Meg Parkinson" that would be worth listening to, especially the ones on how the aids work and correct application of the leg aid and how to get your horse in front of the leg. You need to recalibrate your aids and get your horse responsive to less rather than upping the volume.

Meg has a very interesting Instagram page too with some great rider biomechanical stuff. The podcast I mentioned is free but she has subscription only service too.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 03/12/2023 10:18

CrazyTimes123 · 03/12/2023 10:02

Im not brave enough for hunting ! It’s meant to fix everything tho so maybe I need to get braver.

He’s my horse, I’ve had him 6 months and came very overweight, and is slowly trimming down. He’s on chaff & pony nuts but only a small amount after work as a reward. He’s on limited turnout at the moment, but limitless hay.

I arena school twice a week, one being the actual lesson. The rest is lunge & hacking. I would like more hacking but it’s so difficult this time of year and only the weekends are possible.

You don't have to hunt if you aren't brave enough (although it is great fun and you don't have to jump massive hedges). But perhaps add in or swap one of your schooling sessions for a jumping session (it can be cavaletti size if you aren't a fan of jumping) and use poles in your schooling.

When you do flat school make sure you have a plan and do millions of transitions so he doesn't switch off. But also try to up the amount of trot and canter gradually to increase fitness.

Can you get out to a farm ride or gallops to give him a blast once in a while?

Also is he clipped? Sometimes taking a bit more hair off helps them feel a bit more energetic.

jennylamb1 · 03/12/2023 10:19

Agree with comments about getting the weight off him so that schooling is less of an effort, wouldn't go to spurs as it sounds as if there are other issues at play. Perhaps some poles to add interest or some small jumps? Understand what you mean about hacking at this time of year, when you go out at the weekend is there another horse you can go with to make it more interesting for him? We used to have an Irish draught/TB who was pretty lazy- I think that he was quite a bit more ID than TB, he used to enjoy a bit of cross country. His natural way of going was very on the forehand. If your horse is tossing their head around towards the end of a lesson I would take this as an indication that they're a bit fed up and would benefit from different activities and enrichment.

greenacrylicpaint · 03/12/2023 10:28

spurs are not for 'giving a horse a kick to speed up' but to give very subtle, precise instructions by an experienced pair of horse and rider.

that's where the term 'earning spurs' comes from.

greenacrylicpaint · 03/12/2023 10:33

and 2 lessons (2 hours?) a week of work with limited exercise elsewhere sounds Shock

as with humans, fitness should be part of everyday live. for horses even more so.
15 min head down longe work. woukd probably benefit him greatly.

truetruebarneymcgrew · 03/12/2023 10:33

Lunging is going to as boring for him as the schooling. I agree with others about trying to get the weight off. The fact he starts off well and then needs more encouragement suggests he doesn't need spurs or a whip. He's telling you he's done. Maybe shorten your schooling and build it up more slowly. I think the fact he's limited on turn out time (is this due to injury or poor field drainage?) means he won't be getting as much 'natural exercise' which won't help his fitness level. Do you have time to school in the morning and in afternoons, but for shorter timings?
I agree that if your work 9-5 monday to Friday then getting out riding is difficult but the evening will start to pull out again soon.
I've never been a fan of spurs or whips. I think horses get desensitised to leg pressure from riders if it becomes too regular. I know my ex-riding school pony never responded to rider pressure when I first took her on. I started again with her, and after several months of taking things at her pace, she became more aware and obliging to my requests.
My older boy, was always incredibly sensitive to anything I asked, but I think we could 'read' each other, sometimes I just instinctively knew he didn't want to do anything other than a gentle plod (often with me walking beside himGrin, other times I could feel him under seat desperate for a good gallop!).

CrazyTimes123 · 03/12/2023 10:41

Lots of great replies as usual - thanks !

I haven’t jumped him yet but he’s done it in the past so definitely something I want to do, and I’ve introduced trotting and canter poles to make things more interesting for him. Lessons are 30 mins, and 30-45 if I’m riding on my own or with friends but that’s with lots of stretchy breaks.
I agree he needs some good hacks and hill work as part of his regular schedule. All the local farm rides are now closed for winter unfortunately.
Clipped him last week and that freshened him up a bit 😁

OP posts:
XelaM · 03/12/2023 12:03

My daughter uses spurs but only for SJ competitions - never in training and only very gently. They don't actually make much difference as the pony jumps well without spurs in lessons and my daughter never uses them to hurt her.

Pleasedontdothat · 03/12/2023 12:51

My share horse can be a bit sluggish if you let him be - right from the start my instructor got me using what she calls the super nanny system. First I ask with a light leg aid (basically a slight shake of my lower leg)if there’s no immediate response or the response isn’t good enough then I go straight to a more definite leg aid, if the response isn’t immediate then go straight to a tickle behind my leg with the schooling whip. If he starts slowing down you go back to step 1 and start again. In my first lesson I had to do all 3 steps quite a few times at the start but he became much more responsive very quickly, now he usually goes straight off a light leg aid and I very rarely have to go beyond step 1. Also, the more complicated an exercise is, the better we both do - when we’re both concentrating on where we’re going and which way we’re turning, the rhythm and pace seem to sort themselves out.

Floralnomad · 03/12/2023 13:03

When you say limited turnout do you mean it’s not good or that he is only out for a few hours ? If the latter then I’d look to move to somewhere better , it’s not natural for horses to be standing in stables especially horses that are essentially pets ( ie not regularly competing / racing etc ) . I’m also not sure of the merits of only feeding when you ride , they either need food or they don’t . It sounds to me that both you and your horse need to increase your fitness levels to attain the sort of results you want .

CocoonofDavid · 03/12/2023 20:05

I have one who doesn’t naturally love schoolwork and sometimes needed to go back to basics as per the poster above, re her super nanny technique. We did something similar. It does work, but just make sure that when they go forward when you’ve given your level 3 volume aid that you do not restrict at all with your hand. Reward him for forward, big pats and tell him he’s the cleverest pony in the world- whether he’s just jumped into trot or shot off faster than you anticipated!

Clipping should definitely help, mine certainly becomes less forward if he’s hot and uncomfortable- which means clipping every 3 weeks in winter because he’s park yak.

i know it’s hard and you’ve heard it, but I really can’t overemphasise hacking fitness, and actually fitness generally, how much of a difference it makes. I don’t know how fit you’d say he is now, or what your current hacking fitness level is, but in general, I’d always suggest 6weeks walking hacking, marching not mooching, building up to 1.5/2 hours over the 6w. Then start adding trot. Just a few reps of 30 seconds, building up again, so that by 6w in your ‘trot phase’ you’re doing 15 min trot. You can then do similar with your canter. You can probably start with 1hr long marching hacks if he’s currently doing 30min schooling, so fast forwarding to week 2/3 of the walk phase.

By taking it slowly you know you’re building a solid base fitness, conditioning him slowly and reducing risk of injury, small steps mean he shouldn’t find any stage too difficult so that he doesn’t become discouraged.

Hillwork is great! I use an equine heart rate monitor as part of my training. On our steepest hills his HR can go up to 120 marching up, using his bum to propel him- that’s the same as canter on the flat.

i would also recommend one of the tracking aps, like Equilab. They can help you see how much you are really doing- it can be quite eye opening! I know when I started tracking, I’d think, ‘lovely long canter up the field, and two shorter ones… we did loads of canter today!!’ Then I’d look at the ap and it would be something like 47 seconds! 🤣 It was similar in the trot too. Before tracking I’d think he’d worked hard, but actually what we’d done was nowhere near what I thought he’d done… which then made a difference if you were then asking him to do 10/15 min of trot and 5 min canter in a 30 min lesson.

But remember that ‘schooling fitness’ is a bit different to hacking fitness. The school us harder- the surface is softer and constant turning/circles.

if you can, go in company, it’s more fun for both of you- it sounds like that’s what he needs, to realise it can be fun, not just hard work/tiring. It doesn’t have to be hunting, just something where both of you can relax and enjoy yourselves (and hopefully let your hair down 😊).

Like everyone else I don’t think spurs are your answer, if nothing else changes, he’ll learn to tune those out too. You need a really stable lower leg, that stays completely still unless you’re actively asking. Otherwise every stride you’re using them and teaching him to ignore them (Easier said than done, I’m well aware!).

Good luck and have fun!

Lastqueenofscotland2 · 03/12/2023 20:45

Spurs are not to speed a horse up, but for really refined aids. I don’t hate them with experienced riders with quiet legs. I do hate seeing things being kicked with spurs.

You need to get to the bottom of WHY the horse is sluggish in the school.
Boredom is a huge one, the fact he’s overweight will not be helping.
Is he sound? My friends horse went very behind the leg when she was ulcery, I’ve seen it in horses with bad hocks/arthritic changes to their hocks too as it’s too much like hard work to actively work and push from behind.
Is it a poor understanding of the leg aid? He might literally not understand what you’re asking of him. How does he go for an experienced rider?

witchypaws · 03/12/2023 21:05

Pleasedontdothat · 03/12/2023 12:51

My share horse can be a bit sluggish if you let him be - right from the start my instructor got me using what she calls the super nanny system. First I ask with a light leg aid (basically a slight shake of my lower leg)if there’s no immediate response or the response isn’t good enough then I go straight to a more definite leg aid, if the response isn’t immediate then go straight to a tickle behind my leg with the schooling whip. If he starts slowing down you go back to step 1 and start again. In my first lesson I had to do all 3 steps quite a few times at the start but he became much more responsive very quickly, now he usually goes straight off a light leg aid and I very rarely have to go beyond step 1. Also, the more complicated an exercise is, the better we both do - when we’re both concentrating on where we’re going and which way we’re turning, the rhythm and pace seem to sort themselves out.

That ^^
You tell them what pace, their job is to stay in it and lazy horses need less leg
Loads of direct transitions, halt to trot, trot to halt. Canter the long sides and trot the short sides. Hacking, lots of it with hill work and trotting
Sometimes as well I used to warm up with walking to get the joint fluid going then trot and canter on a loose rein but get off their back and have a bit of a go go go fast canter on the long sides

Once you've got the idea of forward and staying in the pace then you can pretty it up rather than trying to work with a horse that's thinking backwards

jennylamb1 · 03/12/2023 21:14

I remember in lessons a while ago that the first 5 minutes was all about getting the horse going forward with lots of impulsion, a long rein and working through, then bringing into a nice shape. Might help, although all the rest, fitness, variety of work, lots of transitions will help too.

backinthebox · 04/12/2023 20:11

If he is carry too much weight, why are you feeding him unlimited hay? There is a big difference between feeding him in a way which allows him to keep some food constantly in his stomach and allowing him eat as much as he can. My horse will eat slowly till he has had enough, then doze. He is not a big eater. He’s on rehab work atm due to injury, so only walking half an hour a day, and he is looking fat to me. I’m weighing his hay, and spacing the portions out through the day. My son’s Welsh cob would eat an entire bale in a night given access to unlimited hay! And he certainly doesn’t need that much. So he also has his hay weighed and given in small portions, in a small holed net because he kicks the door once he has finished it - I swear if he had a little bell he would ring it for room service. 🤣

As for wearing spurs to get him moving forwards - plenty of people have already explained why spurs are not the tool for this. I’m also a big believer in getting horses out and about to keep them interested - hunting, hacking, gallops, fun rides. It does work to ‘wake them up’ a bit, and gets them fitter.

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