Buying first horse

[DiDonk]

DD has been riding for nearly five years, is very steady, is 12 and 166cm tall. We're thinking of getting a horse and there are spaces at her stables, our budget is up to 10k euros (in France)

Some of her friends have horses which she doesn't like because they are too young, too highly strung, too bolshy on the ground or too big.

What she wants is a medium/large sized horse maybe 16h, but 12-15 years old so still jumpable but sensible.

In our area there's a few suitable candidates for sale, Dutch and Belgian warmbloods, Dutch Zangersheide, and selle français. They're about 5k so well within budget.

Anyway I've seen threads warning of people 'over horsing' so perhaps she is right about what she wants or should we be looking for something a bit younger, more expensive but with more potential??

Personally a warmblood isn't a first horse especially for a child. In UK the most common first horses are either cobs or natives/native crosses but I do appreciate you may not have similar options.
Can her instructor not find something suitable?

If she’s been riding for five years then work with her trainer to find a suitable fit.

What you are looking for is like gold dust - a sensible amateur friendly horse of middle age and size with no vices or soundness issues.

in the UK its usually more pony types for a first horse as pp said but I'm sure I've read that in Europe kids ride bigger horses earlier.

Sorry fogoy to add that for a first horse I would pay more money for an older horse who has been there/done it. You need something that will forgive mistakes, not react to them.
16hh seems very tall for a 12 Yr old. DD is a tall 12 but rides 15hh comfortably, falling from a 16hh horse is a very different prospect to falling from a 15hh.

Don’t buy a horse with potential for a a first horse. I’ve done some instructing since I was 18. You want to be underhorsed if anything. I do occasionally hear that if you overhorse yourself you learn quicker/better but in my experience most people who “overhorse” themselves and buy something with too much blood or too green don’t learn, they end up terrified and end up with a horse they won’t canter, won’t hack, will only ride in one end of the school…
Id go for the been there, done that horse

I'm not sure a 12yo should have the responsibility of deciding what horse she gets, even a really sensible and responsible one. Obviously she should like and click with the horse but the most level headed 12 year old in the world will get their head turned by a pretty face or a great jumper - hell I'm a grown woman and I fall in love with totally mad horses very easily . If you are not horsey yourself you need advice from someone you can trust, her instructor is a good shout so long as they aren't trying to sell something themselves, or do you have a horsey friend that can advise you. I agree with others, 16hh sounds big to me, obviously a very quiet and sensible 16hh is going to be a better option than a wild, young, green 15hh but all things being equal I would go for no bigger than 15.2 and probably a slight/slender 15.2 at that, or a chunkier large pony, 14.2ish if available. A tall, big-moving 16hh warmblood is going to be a lot for her physically on the ground and on board, especially if she isn't used to riding that type of horse - what size does she usually ride at the moment?

Most importantly of all though, more important than breed, size or even age, you want a horse currently doing the job you want it for, so I'd be looking for a horse currently ridden by a not super experienced 12-15 year old (ie not some showjumper's kid that's been breaking in wild ones since just out of nappies), maybe something that's been in the same home for a good few years but outgrown or owner off to college/uni, and that has been doing the range of activities your DD wants to do. And of course one that is very sound and will pass a comprehensive vet's exam for purpose (some small health issues e.g. splints, sarcoids, sweet itch are manageable). Def not something that has been professionally ridden/produced to this point or that has been hammered around the competition circuit - competition results are really not relevant for a first horse for a child, even if she'd like to do some low level/amateur competing, primarily you want a horse than is sound, healthy, safe and fun to ride, pretty much any sound/fit horse will pop around an 75cm showjumping course or an entry level dressage test if ridden correctly/confidently, they don't need to be super athletic but sadly I know plenty of people for whom that's a pipe dream because for whatever reason they're now afraid of their horse and don't enjoy riding at all, even if their horse has all the potential in the world. And this is why I think you can't let your DD pick alone and you need some advice, because your DD might be fine and feel good riding the horse when she tries them under supervision and in his/her own familiar surroundings, it's when you get home, no instructor there to help and horse is unsettled or otherwise circumstances not ideal that she'll really be tested - it takes an experienced neutral eye to be able to tell the horse that will be too much for her. Good luck!

I have a 13-year-old same height as your daughter and she still competes (SJ) on a 14.2 pony.

Her first pony was a lovely 14.2 cob who gave her confidence but was not a good jumper. We then bought a temperamental 14.2 warmblood for competitions and they are now a super partnership who place anywhere they go. But it has taken many many falls to get here. Falling off a 16hh is much higher than off a 14.2 and would your daughter lose the will to ride with a temperamental warmblood?

Both our ponies were found for us by her instructor or the yard manager. I wouldn't buy a horse for my child without an expert's advice to be honest. It's very risky.

Thanks for all your advice, it's very good to get some views in English which I can easily understand .

I spoke to her coach today and he did some great french gestures about the terrible price of horses nowadays, and how long it might take to find something suitable.

He was less keen on getting an older horse but pretty gung go on height - DD did her last big competition in the summer on a small horse but since then has been working her way through the clubs big boys, including one nearly 180 cm tall!

She's been going between ponies and horses the last two years so maybe that is a cultural difference between the UK and France. You certainly see quite small girls at the yard confidently manhandling quite large horses all the time. They are all expected to be able to prepare any horse they use without help from the Shetland stage onwards.

So we will have see what turns up in the hunt for the hens tooth perfect horse!

It may be completely different in France, but for show jumping you can’t be in (BSJA) Juniors on a horse as far as I know. It has to be a pony or she would have to compete in Seniors (which I was told is not a big deal and many kids choose to do). That’s just (maybe completely useless advice) to bear in mind if your daughter intends to compete in SJ.

We have just bought a mother daughter share and we're originally looking for something similar to what you describe. In the end we bought a 15HH cob, she's smaller than I would have chosen for me, but carries my weight well. She's more pony like in the stable so much easier for DD to handle and she doesn't feel over horsed.

She's younger than we planned, but quiet and learning alongside DD. I think go open minded to finding the horse that suits you. Don't over horse, because it might dent your daughters confidence.

No necessarily. Age is no indication of condition. Nor is size a guarantee of being easier to handle.

The horse I ride for lessons is nearly 20 years old. He's a retired showjumper and he's certainly still got it. He is a machine. You can basically do fuck all. Just point him at a jump, go with him and he'll clear it. Does up to 1.8m with ease and I'm pretty sure he could do higher if the fancy took him.

He's 17 hh, built like a tank and honestly the sweetest most laid back horse. A few weeks back my instructor let someone's little sister lead him back to his stable after lesson. Handed her the rope and he just meekly followed this little 3-4 year old back down the aisle where she proceeded to feed him his hay net a tiny handful at a time. 🤣 He was good as gold with her. He always is. Kiss his nose, tell him come on and he'll follow you. Equestrian version of a golden retriever.

Yet there's a little pony there who is a grade A twat. He is fine to ride but pushy and overbearing on the ground to the point where two adults have to catch him and tack him up as the kids being so scared of him and backing off when he misbehaves has lead to him getting a bit too big for his boots. He behaves with me for the most part, now he's realised that turning his bum to me gets it a short sharp introduction to a crop.

Thankfully he has improved since a slightly older more experienced child has started riding him but I wouldn't discount a larger horse as they're often easier to handle.

For a first horse she will have way more fun with an older experienced steady horse that is not too big. She needs to feel safe to build her confidence. There is plenty of time for younger wizzy models in the future if she decides she wants them. I have been riding all my life and have just downsized to a lovely 15.2 as my joints could no longer stand riding a huge warmblood. 15.2 is plenty big enough for the average woman.

Just been watching her ride the clubs newest horse, it looks half carthorse half actual tank. About 160cm, with the hindquarters of several much larger horses stuck together, and beautiful feathers.

On it's first outing it apparently chucked it's rider and smashed through a gate, so she was understandably a little worried but it's cantering round the manege in a floaty way, crushing cones underneath it's mighty hooves and knocking down flagpoles. Perhaps it's actually blind, but very pretty with it.

DD looks very happy. On this basis maybe we'll get a full blown cheval de trait instead of a warmblood.

Just to add to all the very good advice here- you need to be careful about assuming that because DD can handle riding school ponies of different types and sizes that she will be able to handle the same sort of size or type bought from a private owner. Riding school ponies and horses are entirely different and are used to being ridden by a large range of novices and beginners and being schooled day in day out. Her ability on the riding school horses will not translate in the same way to the same horse outside of a riding school.

How about trying a part loan first? You could try and find one locally. It would be a good first toe dip into the world of owning.

Have a look at Lusitanos/ Luso X’s on www.olx.pt - they are smaller warmbloods and are generally sensible. Even with transport costs you’d have lots of choice at under €5k

Thank you, have thought about the difference between club horses and owned a lot. At least at our club there are plenty of owned horses to see, sadly no suitable shares going though, the only two are giant, complicated dedicated jumpers.

OMG, now disappearing down Portuguese rabbit hole! Thanks, I think!

Everyone says never put green on green as all it'll get you is grass. As in a mouthful of it when you hit the ground.

A less experienced rider should never attempt to ride a young or inexperienced horse. My riding instructor explained to me why, as she had a young horse who I adored and wanted to ride, he was a cob, 4 years old. Well behaved in the main but recently trained.

She pointed out to me while I was riding my usual lesson horse, that my legs were never quite still and my pressure not consistent. Reins have a tendency to get a bit long also.

She explained that he was used to beginners and with his 19 years experience he had plenty of context to work with. He knows perfectly well that I'd not be asking him to canter those poles at such a tight angle and its just that my outside leg has slipped back a bit, not a signal. So he continues at a trot.

He knows I'm not asking him for a dead stop mid canter, I've just lost balance a bit. He knows I grip him with my legs, dropping from canter to sitting trot and that I'm not actually asking him to go faster.

If he is confused, he drops to a walk and wants for me to ask again for what I want. A younger greener horse would mistake my fidgets and wobbles for aids and would get confused and frustrated with the unclear signals.

I did ride the cob in the end once I learned to keep my lower legs quiet and my hands still.

If I bought a horse, it would be an older one, steady schoolmaster type. Even a couple of years into lessons I'm not experienced enough to have a younger horse. At least one of us needs to know what we're doing.