Wwyd with pony not progressing?

[Indoorvoicesbluey]

We are full loaning a beautiful 14.2 cob. She’s an absolute dream on the ground and hacking. My 15 (nearly 16yo) and 7 year old absolutely dotes on her and are love her so much. We’ve had her 2 years. When we started loaning she had barely been sat on (she’s 12).

we’ve had two different trainers trying to different methods and the one we have now is very good but she just isn’t progressing. Still struggles to hold a canter in school, trips over jumps etc but hacking she’s a dream and all the girls at the yard love her. She’s not going anywhere as I worry where she will end up.

but would you carry on? Give her another year and see where we go? Her fitness is amazing now and she’s looking fab. Or do I keep her for dd7/as a hack and look for something more for dd15? Or send her back and fear where she may end up? Her owner can’t afford to keep her and she would probably end up at another loan :( owner won’t sell but does not want her back. She doesn’t want to sell because she doesn’t want her ending up in different homes. She would be ideal for dd7 in a few years.

See I'd be wanting to investigate whether there's a physical problem as to why she is struggling in the school if she's otherwise fit... But no way would I be paying for expensive investigations on a horse that was on loan....

Is she just lazy? what is she like with the instructor or similar riding her?

Prefacing this with saying I'm old school....

Tbh I'd be giving her a season out hunting. Bloodhouding if that's more your thing. It is the best way to teach them balance, coordination and how to find that 5th leg jumping. It is absolutely invaluable for bringing on inexperienced horses.

Or as our trainer suggests, getting blood work done to see if she’s anemic or if something else is going on insideZ

Ohh that’s a good idea out hunting!!

our trainers daughter has been riding her out and about wirh said trainer on hacks while dd is at school and she keeps up with their boys. 2 hours they were out the other day and seemed absolutely fine!

When trainer rides her she does as she’s told and is fab, but the min someone else does the same thing she pretends she doesn’t know what you want!

Honestly you can't beat it. Many a very good horse has been made out hunting.

Horses don't think like that. The trainer is probably a well balanced rider with clear aids. That will help a horse even if they have some physical problems. They will also find it easier to canter and even jump when they are out and about, rather than working in circles etc in the arena. Get her properly checked by a vet. Be thankful that you have that rare thing - a trustworthy safe hacking horse. They aren't all cut out for dressage and jumping. Change your mindset and look at her with the view that she's a good horse doing her best and see how you feel. Generally they want to do what we ask.

I had one exactly like this. Fogetting the technical points as was years ago, but vet concluded he had a malformed neck which meant that the nerves weren't transmitting properly so he had a reduced awareness of where his own limbs were. He always struggled in the school in canter as a result. Also not great showjumping as can't alter his stride as easily or turn on a sixpence.

However he is fine when out and about and he has happily hacked, low level XCd and hunted for the last ten years and still going strong.

If you can afford it I would keep her for your youngest.

She’s not trying it on and pretending she doesn’t know what you want. The trainer rides better, so she understands, therefore does.

If she’s tripping and really struggling with canter I would be getting a full MOT, going disunited in canter has been a warning sign for several friends horses that all is not right.

If she goes fine for instructor it's a jockey problem not a pony problem. What does older dd want to do? Compete? Jump? Whizz around?

I'd maybe be tempted to have instructor ride pony in school regularly for a month or so, see if there is any improvement. And older dd have lessons at a riding school or borrowed pony, that is sharper than current one. The problem with steady away ponies is that they take a lot of riding to keep forward, which will mean dd won't necessarily know what she should be doing with her aids, you get a kick, kick, kick mentality and then pony turns off to it and you end up in a cycle.

But don't underestimate the value of a pony safe enough for kids to hack about on, they are worth their weight in gold.

I highly recommend the book 'Cobs Can' by Omar Rabia. I used the methods with a lovely cob I used to work with.

Cobs Can

are you sure this isn't an issue with the other riders?

I'd do a vet check and invest in professional schooling and see progress over a month

You've had some really good advice, echo the health work up suggestions. What is it your 15/16yo wants to do that she can't on current cob, PC/competing? Is she up for a schooling project? I'd say it's a bit of a dubious age to be investing in a second horse as she's presumably just gone into year 11, so exams and college and saturday jobs and boy/girlfriends on the horizon and then she could well be leaving home for uni or whatever in 3 years time and what will you do with 2nd horse then? Not that she'll necessarily lose interest ofc but their time commitments are ever increasing at that age and a proper PC/competition school master won't come cheap, and it will be quite a long time before your 7yo (presuming she wants to) can ride a horse of that size/power.

I think maybe stick with the cob until spring and re-evaluate where you are then, although cobs can be perfectly able for dressage and low level SJ it's always going to take more time, effort and consistent correct work to get them there as you're working against rather than with their natural build and preferences. It's not just fitness (although that helps) it's correct schooling to teach them to sit behind and balance rather than pulling themselves along on the forehand - probably not that easy even for your older DD who I'm sure is a lovely rider to understand and correct exactly what she needs to do if she's never had to teach a horse to do this before, it's much more than just kicking forward, I'd suggest she probably needs weekly lessons including polework and groundwork and to work on it in short but intense schooling sessions 2-3 times a week as well and she'll see an improvement in a few months, but she will need patience and persistence.

Although if you did want to send her back to owner and get something more suitable for PC etc I'm not sure I'd be as afraid as you are about where she'd end up, I'd say a bombproof, sound, easy to handle, good to hack 14.2 cob that can carry an adult but safe enough for a 7yo to ride is actually very valuable and the exact type many people are after, lots of people really don't care about schooling or are happy to potter about in walk and trot so long as she doesn't spook or buck or run off in the school. One just such type who will just about raise an unbalanced canter in the school if booted into it and will sort of plop herself over a small crosspole in an ungainly fashion (but is safe as houses and a total kick-along hack) just sold to a novice/nervous mum and her young DD on our yard for £10k - TBF we're in the pricey SE and even then I think they were ripped off, but it goes to show it's not only fancy competition types that hold their value. I bet if her owner advertised her for full long-term loan or sale at a reasonable price she'd have plenty of takers. Just to reassure you, not saying you should send her back, she sounds lovely.

I ride a really gorgeous 18 year old ISH for lessons. He's a lovely boy, real schoolmaster, bombproof and such a kind horse, sweetest nature I've ever seen in a horse. But my god is he lazy. He'll happily up his game for a stronger rider but a beginner like me, he'll take the absolute piss if he thinks he'll get away with it. Ask him to trot without a crop in my hand and the best I'll get is a slightly more animated plod.

It could just be that your daughter is not clear and strong enough in her aids just yet to really get the best out of her pony. She might be as well to take lessons on a school horse who is a bit more lively to improve her riding without having to worry about constantly keeping her leg on.

I had a little supervised ride on a friend's little cob. Lovely boy but cheeky and a bit naughty. Not really a beginners horse but safe enough in the slower gaits. I rode him really easily. He was so forward going that I didn't really have to worry about keeping him going so could concentrate on my own riding and giving clear aids.

The fact she can do things with the trainer doesn't rule out a physical issue. It may be that the trainer's balance etc makes it easier for the horse to cope despite physical problems.

It might be worth having a lameness specialist vet have a look. Not your regular vet, if you post vague locality I’m sure someone would recommend someone. We had a section d who started cantering disunited and needed hock injections.
I do have a very heavy set 14h cob who just cannot jump. He literally falls over a tiny cross pole if asked to jump it. He can canter nicely though. I have had him 20 years and always been keen on schooling. He can do lovely walk pirouettes and leg yield. I don’t know what level your older daughter is at but if she could put some work in with lateral movements you might see some improvement.
In your shoes I would consider an additional more athletic pony for your older dd if you can afford it. Presumably it would then be passed down to your younger one so you could get many years fun. It is hard as your dd will never have these years again where she has lots of time to ride and compete.

I agree

Yes I agree this can absolutely be a thing. Reluctance to canter + the ponies age I’d be looking to x ray hocks.

That said, as much as some cobs can be really sporty , a lot of them have really unfortunate confirmations. And can find school work and jumping really hard work. Which might explain reluctance.

That's what I was thinking too. The trainer could be a strong enough rider that any issues are masked. Difficulty maintaining canter and tripping over poles could indicate hind leg suspensories, sacroiliac disease among other things. I'd ask for a performance work up at a veterinary hospital.

A lot of horses are started too young, but there's a particular temptation for some people if it's a young chunky cob. They come up with various justifications for it, but the fact is that they are babies still with a lot of growing to do at 2/3 years old. So the young horse doesn't use itself well, doesn't work from behind, and is effectively pulling themself along from the front. It causes a strain on their joints and developing skeletal structures that comes back to bite them when they are older. Tripping is generally a sign to get them properly checked over. In my big cob it was the indication that he had arthritic changes, which ended up in him retiring at 12 years old. He was started and ridden at 2.
(Dr Deb Bennett - the Ranger article - still a good study on how horses mature. Concluding not physically mature until at least rising 6, and all breeds mature at the same rate).