Bit advice please...what to try

[Iamclearlyamug]

Hi all

DD11 is getting on really well with her new pony. In his previous home, he was only ever fired at jumps and did no flatwork at all, so naturally now gets very strong, and it blows his brain a bit.

We've done a huge amount of work on the flat with a great instructor, and he's now going beautifully in a hanging cheek myler comfort snaffle.

Our plan is for workers next season, but he is going to be wayyy too strong for her - she's a very neat quiet rider but she's tiny and petite.

Any suggestions? He came with a pelham which he loathed, he loves the myler but it's just not enough brakes!

Pic because he's handsome 😍

I would recommend you get an independent bit fitter out who can assess the horse's mouth, level of schooling + rider ability and then advise on the best bit. Without knowing the conformation of the horse's mouth no-one can really advise. Surely the instructor could also advise?

Do you know what it was that she hated about the Pelham?

@Lastqueenofscotland2 I think it's just too big and heavy for him, he's got a tiny little mouth.

Also when he gets strong his head tends to get lower - obviously a Pelham has a curb action so a lowering effect on his head, so kind of the opposite action to the one we need!

Our instructor suggested a Tom thumb but he hated that too, the mouthpiece is too fussy, he really does prefer as plain as possible inside his mouth 🤦‍♀️

Schooling is what is needed, not necessarily a stronger bit. Physical strength and weight of rider has very little to do with how much horse you can hold - that comes from a developed seat. Lots and lots of work without stirrups, including all paces and jumping. Lots of schooling in a constructive way to get him to listen - in the old days cavaletti! Grids, polework. Don't let him jump until he is calm and on her say so.

A change of nose and can prove to be effective for a horse that lowers and ploughs too.

What does your dd want from the pony?

What @OrlandointheWilderness said! Develop the seat, work on the lower leg position, all the old-fashioned stuff!

Thanks @TheInfusionist! I know it's dull and boring stuff, but honestly I've spent a huge amount of time over my life professionally reschooling horses that are the result of quick fixes - which tbh most bit choices are. A strong pony with a strong bit will end up a gassy, near uncontrollable animal that flattens into its fences and doesn't jump well, and still is strong! Take it back to basics.

There are caveats of course - I've spent a lot of my life hunting on horses that are strongly bitted - by the time you have a ten year old 17 h hunter that has done 5 seasons and knows the job, no amount of schooling will cut it really and it becomes a safety feature. However, the hands of a very experienced adult may be vastly different to that of a child, no matter how sweet a rider she is and learning the correct way will do her a massive service and educate her to proper ways of riding, not short cuts.

I understand this, but she also has to be safe. She can ride him on the flat beautifully in all paces, and over poles but as soon as the smallest jump is there he's just off! We've tried poles into a fence, and turning him away from the fence every time he gets silly, but that just makes him even sillier the next time.

He has a fantastic bold jump and the plan is workers next season and aim for the RIHS qualifiers.

We don't want a quick fix and she has training and lessons galore, but the bit we have just isn't working for jumping and not every pony will just go in a snaffle, hence asking for advice on what else to try

@OrlandointheWilderness thanks for the suggestion of changing the noseband though, definitely something to consider as well 😀

No advice but just here to say your pony is absolutely beautiful 😍

Sounds silly but when he takes off does he actually take a hold or does he just go without getting strong.

Before adding poll pressure etc I’d entertain trying a new mouth piece. Personally I really like Waterfords, they can’t set against them and unless you have awful hands tend to sit in the mouth a lot nicer than a lot of jointed mouth pieces (I despise single joints!)

Grid work, rather than just poles into fence. Not a quick fix, but worth it. Bit-wise, strongly recommend getting someone from a bit bank out, with your instructor there, to see what he might like and what will bring his forehand up.

What does your instructor recommend, they're really best placed to advise as they've seen the pony and your DD on the ground. I know the 'more schooling' answer is a very tedious one but really (so long as any physical issue is ruled out), 99% of the time that is the best way rather than trying to bit up as you then tend to find whatever the problem is expressing itself in other ways.

That being said, what actually does he do when get he gets strong, I know you've said head down (so I'd certainly avoid a grackle noseband or anything which works to put pressure on the poll or nose) but does he just speed up? Is he opening the mouth or leaning on the hands, how does the contact feel (I know ineffective as he's not stopping but in what way ineffective?). Can he/does he still jump accurately and is he steerable from the speed he wants to go at or is he just completely out of control/crashing through things? Have you tried putting a more experienced lightweight rider up and seeing what they say (no shade on your DD but this could be informative). For instance if it was my pony I'd like to try and understand whether it's pure overexcitment causing the rushing or is he actually a bit anxious about jumping and this is how he's learnt to do it - is he better/worse/the same on a different surface or when the jumps get bigger/more technical? What about through grids that sort the striding out for him. A experienced lightweight rider that doesn't mind being a bit of a crash test dummy might be able to try him over different types of fences and different spaces/surfaces to give you a bit of an insight.

It's great to have ambition but a pony habituated to jumping from a very fast pace and that gets very overexcited may never be suited to workers however pretty - not that your DD should be unambitious of course but would a hunter pony showing, dressage or SJ aim be better for this summer at least? For pure bit advice I guess if what you need is to get the head up and more brakes you do need something with leverage on the mouth rather than pressure on the poll, so that would be a mouthpiece with a curb rather than a snaffle action, some examples of bits fitting this criteria would be a Waterford, a Myler correctional with port or a Myler combination, or a gag but you MUST get these correctly fitted especially as he has a small mouth, the last thing you want is to make him worse or to cause new evasions and if your DD is already a little nervy jumping she could definitely easily overuse, she needs to remember to half halt and release not hang on, but that's easier said than done in the heat of the moment which is why it's practice practice practice....

Also, and I know you didn't ask for CC and it's very silly advising based on a single picture of a moment in time (so feel free to ignore), but what is the aim of her schooling work currently? Just from the pic and what you'd said it sounds very much as though the aim has been to get him soft on the contact, rhythmical and them both relaxed, which is totally understandable and the success in this shows in the picture which is lovely. But he does look a little bit on the forehand and as though he's threatening to tip behind the vertical, which it sounds like is what is happening when he jumps too.

I've experienced this myself with several horses/ponies who habitually rush, and instruction/schooling which is too focussed on softness, 'roundness' and relaxation can, not precisely make things worse, but not solve the root cause of the problem - and I definitely find if I warm my horse who is a bit like this up, with lots of stretching and have him swinging along in a big trot/canter on a long-ish contact and very soft over the back, as soon as I move onto something more exciting like poles or jumps he is (a) heavily tipped onto the forehand so downhill, BTV and clumsy/not prepared to sit behind and collect or adjust (b) very, very strong, to the point of being out of control. I have to work him much more 'up' and focus on off the forehand and pushing from behind without allowing all the energy to run out the front end in order to see success when stepping the work up into either more advanced dressage work or poles/jumping - obviously this generally produces a less pleasing picture as he will tend to hollow and sometimes object when not allowed to carry his weight the way he naturally wants and is built to, especially to the inexperienced eye that prefers to see a horse with it's head down and 'round' than up and hollow (not saying the latter is correct either but horses that haven't been correctly schooled will often need to take a step backwards to go forwards IFYSWIM). Again your instructor will be best placed to advise and ofc your DD is only 11, likely she doesn't fully get the true technicality of this but instead of just saying she needs to school more, a bit of a shift in what schooling you are doing rather than simply doing more and more of the same might both keep her motivated and also improve the results?

I think Maxelly has answered really well. I used to have an ex pointer who really tanked into fences and the steering was dodgy to say the least. Honestly it took… 18 months… 2 years? And was so so so boring but it did work.

As much as I’d rather see quiet hands and a gag than something having it’s back teeth pulled out in a snaffle I do agree that bitting up just masks a problem and can make things worse and unless you’re dealing with the issue you can just get in a cycle of needing a stronger and stronger bit as the pony learns to evade

I'd check the mouthpiece on your pelham too, if it's thick then not many ponies are comfortable in them and it can encourage leaning. A stainless steel mullen mouth works much better ime, or perhaps a shallow port/tongue groove. Another option would be a kimblewick, I found both worked well on a head betwen the knees and tank mare I had, despite them supposedly having the opposite effect.

If your pony likes the myler then why not try the Pelham version. Sounds like it was the mouthpiece of your Pelham rather than the actual but your pony objected to. Also second the suggestion of a kimblewick which are out of fashion these days but can be very useful. A hanging cheek is a lovely bit bit is probably milder than your average loose ring snaffle. It certainly won't give you extra brakes. Definitely worth finding and addressing the cause of the rushing but in the meantime as you say your dd needs to be safe.

Try a universal or a wilkie
Not sure that saddle fits your dd very well although it's hard to see
Is she tipping forward as that will encourage him to run

Also if its tipping forward it will pinch him which will also make him rush fences to get to the other side.

Expert bits do a version of the myler universal called a comfy barrel which is worth a try.

How about trying a kimblewick?

I loathe over-bitting and some bits are just harsh, but equally your DD does need brakes. Had the same issues, to an extent, with both my DD's Pony Club ponies although they were 14.2 and she is/was a proportionate size - they could both just get very strong and excited when faced with an arena of show jumps. And one had a very sensitive mouth and loved his Happy Mouth bits! Compromise we found worked well without whacking a load of metal-ware in their mouths was a grakle noseband with normal bit. Which in both cases (when we got Mr Sensitive to get over his Happy Mouth preference) was a loose ring 2 ring gag with a French link or copper peanut, usually on the snaffle ring and only very rarely on the gag ring.