Recurrent laminitis

[Newuser75]

I'm wondering if people can help me. I have a cob who had mild laminitis about 7 years ago but has been fine ever since.

In the last year she has had gastric ulcers, surgery on both hind suspensories and treatment for sacroiliac disease.

When she first went back out after the initial box rest so got laminitis. Back on box rest then out in Small, well grazed paddock for an hour. A few weeks later laminitic again (only mildly each time as we caught it very quickly).

Back off grass in a hardstanding area for a month. Reintroduced to grass for half an hour at a time. Then increased gradually over about 2 months up to 2 hours with muzzle.

Reduced grazing time back to an hour when we finally got some rain as thought grass would be shooting through. She is now showing as uncomfortable on her feet again!

She has been tested for ems and Cushing a, both negative. She is now being ridden about 4 times a week at walk and trot which is increasing as she is building up strength and fitness.

What am I missing? Why does she seem unable to be at grass and is there anything I can do?

I will be ringing vet again tomorrow morning but he is at a bit of a loss too.

Did she have ACTH test or stim test? The stim test is more sensitive and can pick up positive results that the ACTH result returns as negative. With re-occuring lami I would definitely ask vet for stim test. If necessary change vet to one that is more up to date with current research and thinking about laminitis/PPID.
Mine had 2 x negative ACTH tests but then a positive stim test and is now on a very low dose of prascend. I had to push for all the tests due to symptoms (lami/random skin conditions etc).

Sorry also male sure you look at diet eg only give soaked hay and take off all hard feed. Any hard feed should be under 10% NSC. Some horses just seem unable to cope on any grass at all sadly so see if there is alternative turnout eg dirt track system as this may suit her better.

Thanks so much for the advice. She is only having soaked hay. If I'm honest I can't remember. I think it was an acth test. She is only 10, could do with loosing a small amount of weight but I can easily feel her ribs so she isn't too bad. It's horrible, we have a hardstanding area for her but I don't like the idea of her only ever getting turned out there. Could look at a surfaced track I suppose.

Oh and only a small amount of hi fi lite for her meds.

Most vets only do ACTH unless you specifically ask for TRH Stim test. I would definitely go back to the vet or get a second opinion. How long are you soaking hay for?
Track systems are getting more popular so it might be worth investigating whats available in your area.

Soaking hay for at least 4 hours. Track could be an option as we have them at home so can do whatever we want within reason. Will ask about trh test!

Need to soak hay for 12 hours to properly reduce sugars. Look up Clare McLeod Independent Nutritionist on Facebook, she has a lot of info on this.
Definitely look at track system as it keeps them moving and you can hang small soaked haynets along the way.
Also look at weight of hay you are feeding.
Good luck!

Thanks. The daytime haynet me are soaked overnight. The nighttime ones for at least 4 hours but depends how much time I have. Am already weighing her hay. It's a nightmare!

Lami is horrible and some horses just don't cope well on grass.

As well as the above, it might be worth getting your grass tested- some varieties are higher in sugars than others. Ryegrass is particularly bad but I'm sure there's others. There are blends specifically for lami horses though od course it isn't a quick or cheap fix!

The sugar in grass drops overnight so it might be worth strip grazing her out overnight. You can make the new strip tiny too, so she's not gorging herself!

Thanks. I'd love to be able to strip graze her overnight but at the moment she doesn't seem to be able to cope with more than an hour on a small bare paddock wearing a muzzle. We have some small ponies too and they are fine. Could test the grass but I must admit I don't fancy getting the whole lot re seeded.

Have a look at Pete Ramey's site. I found it invaluable when I had a lami prone pony. His book may be slightly outdated now but I found it fascinating!
HoofRehab

The way I understand it,laminitis is a digestive disorder that manifests itself as damage to the feet. Even with a si called mild case, the damage is done and won't be undone until the horse has been able to grow a whole new hoof capsule with more tightly connected laminae.
I managed to contain the laminitis with my pony by carefully controlled diet, exercise and trimming. Bitch of a disease so best wishes to you and your lovely cob!

Oh thanks! Will do!

I feel your pain. We have three and all have had touches of laminitis this year, I think the grass must be particularly sweet or something! One went full on laminitic even though they were in a grazing paddock with the tiniest bit of grass and coming in either day or night.

Interesting to know hay should be soaked for 12 hours, I was in a rush last night (having three to do) and only soaked it while I was there but will need to make sure it’s always overnight.

I think I’m just going to have to keep them in every day and only put them out at night for the summer. One of them I’ve had for years and he used to be able to go out all summer in unlimited grass but it seems to have gradually come on over the last few years. I swear the grass isn’t the same these days!

I think you are right about the grass. My horse lived out 24/7 last year with absolutely no issues. Not sure what's gone wrong. Wondered if it was that she had been off the grass for so long while getting over surgery or what.

I've struggled this year with laminitis with my old boy. He's been better since I've given him magnesium daily. May be coincidental

Also, it's worth remembering that soaking hay for longer doesn't necessarily refuce sugar more. There is a saturation point, so once that is reached (the sugar in the water equals up with what's in the hay) So you need to soak in a lot of water, and ideally change the water too, to get rid of more sugar.
I no longer have horses but it would be worth reading around soaking hay as I have a feeling it isn't recommended any more( though it did the trick for mine) I believe the soaking water becomes toxic to the environment (and so possibly to the horse as well)
Ive seen people soak the hay daily in the same water which as well as being disgusting, is a waste of time as there will be no room in the already sugar-saturated water to absorb any more

Interestingly for those who are wondering whether there has been a chsnge in geasses etc this does have some element of truth!
We keep horses in very different ways to how we did 30+ years ago as back then most horses lived out all year (or most of the year) with very little hard feed and a lot more work. However science has also progressed so we are more aware of illnesses etc.
We are too used to seeing obese horses that we no longer recognise what a healthy weight is and there is a serious obesity problem in this country. Horses do less work and are more confined to arenas rather than going out doing hard work eg hunting/hacking to shows etc. In my youth I would hack 1 hour to a show, do the show abd then hack home. Nowadays we box to a show, do 1 hour's work then box home again. So horses do a lot less work but are fed more complicated feeds peddled by feed companies.
There is discussion about the amount of artificial chemicals in most horse feeds and whether that is contributing to rise in certain illnesses.
Then you factor in the rising cost of land and that most horses are kept on postage stamps of fields which are overgrazed/fertilised etc.
Finally we no longer let horses get thin over winter, horses are natural yo yo dieters but we are obsessed with keeling weight on throughout winter. In reality we should let them lose weight over winter to ensble them to put it back on in Spring. If horses are going into spring well covered then that is going to cause issues eg laminitis.
It is something I'm really interested in.

Im old too @twistyizzy and i agree 100%

This is interesting and something I have thought a lot about too. I also think people have forgotten what a healthy horse should look like. Show ponies particularly are generally very overweight.

I will do further research on soaking hay as there seems to be differing opinions.

I do try to leave my horse unrugged as much as possible and if she is rugged it's literally a sheet. She gets a clip in winter too as has hair like a yeti.

She never gets any hard feed whats so ever except a tiny handful of chaff for her meds and is ridden as much as her rehab program will currently allow.

Maybe she won't stand the grass anymore. 😥

I’m desperately trying to get my retired boy to slim down but it’s proving to be a lot more tricky than I’d hoped. The grass this year has caused his weight to balloon - this time last year he was 535 according to the weight tape (I know they’re not particularly accurate but give an idea of trends/a baseline) however this year I can’t even get the weight tape round him 😳. He’s been muzzled during the day and out on longish grass that’s mostly gone to seed and coming into a virtually bare smaller paddock overnight so he can have the muzzle off for a bit. He’s got very sensitive skin so can’t have the muzzle on 24/7 (last time we tried that he ended up with broken skin which got infected). He needs to be out as much as possible as he has asthma and hock arthritis and his companion also needs to be moving as he gets very stiff and sore if he’s in more than the occasional night. After 6 weeks of this he’s not put any more weight on but certainly hasn’t lost any.. I’m doing in-hand walks with him with short bursts of trot but it’s not enough - I can’t lunge him much as that won’t be good for his hocks and he can’t be ridden - not sure what else to do 😩. He didn’t lose enough over winter as it was mostly too mild - he’s unrugged and has a handful of chaff for his medication.

It's so hard isn't it. My farrier said he had seen 7 cases of laminitis in one week! Most of which had never had it before and some were really fit, healthy horses. The grass this year is crazy!

Only thing that helped my old ID was a surfaced track system. He can tolerate grass now but it has to be really long and stalky. Short grass is stressed grass and has way more sugar in it, not good for metabolically challenged horses. He also had ulcers. Lots and lots of hay has helped heal them and he's learnt to self regulate his intake without gorging. We also took his shoes off and use hoofboots if he needs them. Nailing metal into an already compromised and inflamed hoof structure won't help things. He's 24 and looks and feels better than ever but it was a long road!

Yeah she is barefoot too. They all are actually. The farrier was there for a trim. I think I'm going to have to look into the track thing more. Thanks