What to do about loan pony

[overitunderit]

I've got a pony on part loan. I do a 2 or 3 days a week. She's DIY so I do all jobs too. I've been asked to pay a relatively large amount towards her care (£100). This is quite a lot in the context of what it costs (£40 a week livery). She has front shoes but isn't on any hard feed just hay and grass. She doesn't have any fancy stuff as owners have had her for many years. I also do her non-ridden stable mate (separate stable) at the same time in a fit of generosity.

Anyway, all this would be ok if I was able to ride her in the way I was hoping. I was told she was suitable for a novice and is good to do in all ways. My experience has been that she's a sweet pony when she wants to be but she lacks ground manners and I've had a few issues with her. She used to pull a lot of faces when I was tacking her up and actually nipped me once leaving a very large bruise. She is a bit nippy generally (she hasn't managed to nip me again) if she doesn't want to do something. She also is crap to mount. She's ok at the block but she moves around, backs up constantly if you try from the ground. She's also not great in canter- she cuts corners which I'm aware is probably partly my fault. But the main issue is that the yard is really small and there is no off road hacking and she is crap out on her own. On the 3 occasions I've taken her out she's been a bloody nightmare. One time she was ridiculously spooky at everything she saw then did a massive spook at a farm vehicle and turned on her heel for home. I was so freaked out I just let her and it was all I could do to keep her calm enough not to trot home. The most recent time I went out with her stable mate and someone else from the livery walking as we hoped it would help her feel calm but she was head tossing like mad constantly and rushing and clearly agitated. She nearly backed into a ditch a couple of times when the person walking tried to interact with her. She was just basically hard work.

I am having lessons on her. If I keep going to do her I think I would have to go back to basics with a lot of ground work and somehow work out a strategy of how to get her out hacking but I can feel my confidence being eroded and I don't want to feel unsafe. She's been out of proper work for a while it now seems and so it feels like I'm going to end up paying a lot of money to bring someone else's pony back into work and build her ground work skills etc. obviously it's good experience for me too. I'm torn between throwing in the towel and going back to the odd hack and lesson on a local riding school pony and persevering. It's really making me worry.

And to say I've raised some of these things with the owner and they basically think their pony can do no wrong. I don't think they think they have misrepresented anything at all and I'm sure they haven't done it on purpose but she was only very rarely ridden and when she was ridden by the owner obviously that's someone she knows and trusts well so I'm guessing she is good for them. I raised she may need a saddle fitter and they agreed but it hasn't materialised. I asked whether they had similar mounting issues and I sort of just got a shrug- I think they are just used to her. She's basically a fairly spoilt, fat pony who is used to the life of Riley.

I think I would end the loan and look for another that is a better fit for you. Horses and riding should be fun and none of that sounds like fun. It is absolutely ok to tell yourself that you can move on to another pony and that you have learnt lots through this experience and that your love of horses and riding continues.

OK so a few thongs:

• I take it this is you first loan? If so then you are learning the difference between a riding school horse and a privately owned horse
• horses aren't robots, they each have their own personalities and quirks and this is the joy of owning, you get to work with them however in all honesty it doesn't sound like a good match
• nipping/biting when being tack up can suggest issues eg badly fitting tack/ulcers/or just mareish behaviour. As a novice and a loaner these may be out of your capability to address
• The problem with loaning is that often the horse s DO need work putting in as usually people only put their horse out for loan if they don't have the time therefore you are taking something on which may not have had much work or attention for a while and that's when bad habits can occur

My advice to you is to end this loan and look for a new one but arm yourself with lots of questions and really spend time thinking about what you need/want from a loan. Use this as a learning experience and move on.

I don’t think you sound experienced enough for this level of involvement at this time

It seems you are being asked: Expected: to retrain this horse.
Not your job
Not your skill
Move on.

For £100 a week I would look for a decent instructor who teaches on their own horse - I have an exinternational rider who teaches me and that would get me two lessons a week. No responsibility (although I ‘do’ the horse before and after my lesson). Your riding will improve dramatically and you will get so much more out of any future loan horse.

What she is asking for may well be half the horses costs, but you don’t sound like you are having fun. I also think the cutting corners on canter and nipping on tacking up sound like this horse isn’t comfortable and I wouldn’t be happy riding it until its saddle was checked at the very least.

She sounds very ulcery or that her back is out. I wouldn’t be riding such an obviously uncomfortable horse. I’d terminate the agreement personally

Lots of issues in one post here.

Firstly, and a huge bugbear of mine, is loaners/sharers who say ‘I don’t want to pay to school someone else’s horse.’ The fact is that all horses (even ones with only front shoes on and not eating hard feed) cost a lot of money to keep, and all horses (even an Olympic gold medal winner) need ongoing schooling to keep them ticking along at the level they are at, and need even more schooling if you want to improve the level they are at. You can be sure a decent owner is also paying (and probably a lot more than you!) to school their horse.

Secondly, there is nothing more jarring to the ear of a horse owner who is actually quite happy with their horse than the sound of someone not being happy with their horse. They might think their horse is perfect in every way. It might be a complete knob or just evil, but if they like it and are happy, a loaner pointing out its faults is not going to endear themselves. It is also possible that a loaner’s inexperience has allowed some more unsavoury behaviour to come to the surface. I have wonderful helpers for my horses, but I did have to spend a lot of time and get in a remedial trainer to help me re-educate my horse after one rider allowed a mounting problem to get out of hand.

However, having said that, there are some decidedly naughty ponies out there with poor manners and unpleasant personalities, even though their owners love them. You have to make a decision as to whether you carry on with the pony or look for another one. It honestly doesn’t sound much like the sort of set up I would be much won over by. If the pony, owner, yard and hacking are not doing it for you, there are lots out there that might be a better match. One of the huge advantages of being a loaner is you can just walk away from any situation you don’t want to continue in. I wouldn’t tolerate nippy, nappy, or bad tempered in any way. WRT not being great in canter, yes that probably is a bit of your fault. Spooking - sometimes this is the horse, sometimes the rider, usually a combination of each of them not trusting the other. My DD’s horse is perfectly fine when being ridden by DD, but a recent new sharer has had nothing but trouble with him. Spooking, napping, refusing to be mounted, etc. We’ve owned the horse for nearly 4 years and my daughter has been riding him since she was 12, including competing at a vey high level (British team in her sport.) So we are pretty sure it is not the horse that is the problem. If it’s not the horse, we can only assume it is the rider! But the rider is convinced it is the horse.

I can’t advise you what exactly to do, but it is worth looking at your relationship with the horse and owner and deciding if it is not working for you. If it’s not, go and look for something that works better. It will be better for owner and pony too in the long run.

Yup she's first loan for me.

I think I have been having fun but this latest experience taking her out on a mini hack has made me think maybe she's not right for me. The conditions were perfect- we were with her friend, we were walking behind an experienced rider on the ground and we were only going a short distance but it was so stressful. The woman who was walking was actually like "wow I didn't realise she was such a nightmare" which made me feel a bit better that it wasn't just me imagining things.

With the issues with her tack I've raised it with the owners as a possibility and have discussed ulcers with my instructor (instructor doesn't think it's that) but having said they would get a saddle fitter they haven't. I think it's their responsibility to at least make sure she's comfortable and that I'm safe as I can be. I've been researching what else it could be and have got into the habit of lunging her before I tack her and tightening her girth very slowly which seems to have helped.

I've grown very fond of this pony and I'm also aware that the flexibility of the arrangement is quite rare and I'm also now very aware that all horses will need a long period of getting to know each other to build up to what I want to do. Having said all that my visions of day rides and Sunday morning hacks together seem to be a distant dream!!

If nothing else if you genuinely think her saddle doesn’t fit please stop riding her. It’s so unfair

They don't school her at all. She's a family pony with no rider anymore (children grown up) and so she was having to odd lunge and odd ride. I think they implied it was a bit more than it actually was as she is quite clearly not used to work.

I hear you about people being sensitive to their horses though. It's been a really stressful line to run. I've had to try and raise any issues in the most delicate way possible as I'm aware my decision making is basically zero and they adore this pony (and I can see why, she can be cuddly and she's cute and can be good to school too).

Your instructor can not duagnose ulcers, only a vet can and with all due respect being "girthy" is a prime indicator. She definitely sounds uncomfortable and personally I don't ride my horse if he is trying to tell me that he is uncomfortable as this is a welfare issue, trying to push a horse through discomfort will only ever end one way!
The realities of horse ownership are that for every lovely hack/ride there are hours of work + sorting issues out. Just because you are fond of her doesn't mean that it is a good match.

Also I'm happy to pay to school someone else's horse as I know lessons on a loan pony are absolutely necessary but I still want to feel like I'm getting enough out of it right now and that I can build up to a lovely relationship but as a novice rider I don't want to have my confidence shot to pieces in the process of bringing her back to where she needs to be. I was told she was suitable for novices but I'm actually not convinced that's true at all. I really get on with the owners and they are really flexible with the arrangement which is what I need with small children so that's a big plus for me too.

I did think that but my instructor wasn't sure and she seems to have got better with a lunge first and slow tacking up and I also raised the idea of a saddle fitter which I was told was being sorted but hasn't been.

If she was my pony she would have had a saddle fitter out the second she looked uncomfortable.

There's also an element of me knowing I'm the novice in this scenario and wanting to trust everyone else around me who seems to think there is no issue. I can see there is probably nothing more annoying than a novice turning up armed with google diagnosing a load of problems.

There is a big difference between what riding schools class as novice and what a novice is when it comes to riding outside the school. A novice in a riding school would be someone who hasn't ridden before, a novice in the private owning horse world would be someone new to horse ownership, not ever competed, someone who has only basic levels of riding ability (can walk, trot and canter but not able to improve the way a horse goes), hasnt dealt with horses spooking/behaviour issues and hasn't been out and about.

Honestly OP. Please stop.
The horse is screaming to tell you they aren’t comfortable and it’s probably only by their good nature you aren’t eating dirt every other time you get on.
Your instructor is not a vet, physio or saddle fitter.

Please listen to @Lastqueenofscotland2. The pony is trying to tell you something is wrong, listen to it! It needs a professional eg vet/physio + saddle fitter.

I honestly do think this pony is trying to tell you that something, somewhere, is not right and is causing discomfort/ pain. You do say the owners love the pony - but I really do wonder if this is true, as if they did, all this would have been looked into and sorted long before now.

Also, how old is the pony? If she is getting on in years, maybe she just wants a quieter life now, and being brought back into ridden work is just too much for her.

As you are a novice yourself, if these issues are not addressed, I would seriously think about walking away from this arrangement. Yes, it gives you the flexibility you need, but if it shatters your confidence there really is no point to it. I would not suggest lessons yet either, as the pony needs a good check over to detect and resolve any issues. Yes, the behaviour may be down to pure naughtiness - but everything else needs to ruled out first before drawing this conclusion.

This pony does really need the professionals; vet, saddle fitter, dentist at the very least.

Ok thank you everyone. I think I'll speak to the owner on the phone tonight to talk through the things I've got concerns about and give it another few weeks to focus on ground work and see if there are any improvements.

Whilst I know my instructor isn't a vet etc she is very experienced (her main job is breaking and schooling livery which she does very successfully) and she's a gentle and thoughtful horse owner so I trust her. She agrees her saddle needs checking but said she didn't think she was an ulcer candidate with only one symptom but you're right it's impossible to know without having her checked.

@overitunderit there s sometimes a misconception about "a typical ulcer horse" when in reality this is bollocks, over 50% of leisure horses have ulcers. Just because she isn't a TB or competition horse doesn't mean she can't have them. Ulcers are ALWAYS caused by either stress or pain, if her saddle doesn't fit and is causing pain or she has issues in her back then 100% this can cause ulcers. Ulcers are incredibly painful hence why it is important to get vet advice + treatment.
However with mares these symptoms can also point to ovary issues which again are very painful.
We really have to look at what a horse is trying to communicate to us: horses are very rarely "naughty", they can only communicate issues through behaviour so as owners/riders we have a responsibility to listen to our horses and get professional advice.

I think she sounds great! I'd move to another if you can OP.