The demise of good horsemanship

[twistyizzy]

Thought about posting this on AIBU but couldnt face the backlash of "first world problem" comments 😊
So yet another livery has arrived on the yard: unhorsey parents + teenager who has ridden for 2 years at a riding school and has been bought their first horse. Priority given to have Le Mieux match match over a properly fitted saddle/tack, child isn't having lessons on new horse and is struggling so they have just shoved a Waterford in its mouth.
This is just becoming all too common: people asking for veterinary advice on Facebook instead of calling the vet, horses underworked but having tonnes of feed pumped into them, fashion over good quality well fitting tack etc. It just seems that common sense horsemanship has practically disappeared along with much of the knowledge about horse care etc.
People not even knowing how to take TPR to monitor their horse's health, correct feeding for work bring done, how to treat minor ailments and when to call the vet etc.
All just highly frustrating and as a result I honestly believe that the welfare of many horses is compromised.

It's not new, I had my first horse 40 years ago and there were many owners like that, I was probably one of them in some respects! Just be helpful rather than scornful.

Oh I do know because they are always filming + posting

If you had read my comments you would have gleaned that many of us have tried to offer advice/help etc but it always falls on deaf ears

I think there is a massive dose of this too.

The inexperienced person/newbie on the yard knows that everyone us bitching about them because they always are. Even if you are nice to their faces. And that environment isn't exactly helpful for asking advice

For those of you who obviously haven't read my comments: we often try to help in a nice supportive way but more often than not it falls on deaf ears.
Yes I do judge when horse welfare is at risk.
No-one is against a novice owner but they should be willing to learn and to put their horse first instead of neglecting the horse in favour of insta posts.
My general complaint was that the overall level of horsemanship and knowledge is in decline and I gave a few examples, nothing I've read so far contradicts my belief in this.

My biggest issue is that younger instructors (I did my BSHAI 40 years ago) appear to be terrified to point out what some of these kids are doing wrong.

At a local college where they teach 16-18 year olds on equestrian courses, often on school-owned horses, the instructors spend the whole lesson using poles to teach the bored horses how to pick their feet up. The extremely poor standard of riding is not addresses at all. The focus is purely on improving the horse - not very likely given the nature of the horses available. At that stage of my career I recall spending hours without stirrups to deepen my seat and my free time galloping about the countryside where if my seat wasn't good enough, I would be on the ground soon enough.

I have observed the regular jumping lessons of a teen with a star-gazing pony with a harsh bit and martigale. The instructor at no point addresses the issue but continues to coach the child over increasingly large obstacles and it all looks like an accident waiting to happen. This child need to go back to some serious flat work in a snaffle before she goes near another jump, but obviously that advice is not going to come from young BS instructor.

At a recent dressage lesson I observed the same. The teen was riding well, but was hanging on the reins and was unable to keep her legs still. The instructor was excellent at telling the rider how she could improve the collection and outline of the horse, but at no point did she comment of the position or technique of the rider herself.

All this leads me to wonder if I missed the memo. Is it now frowned upon to comment on the technique or ability of the rider during a riding lesson? Are we supposed to keep our thoughts to ourselves so as we don't offend anyone?

Well obviously if the pony is poorly or lame or under/overfed that's a welfare issue. If using a Waterford on a strong pony is a welfare issue I should be in prison by now.

Honestly OP I agree with you. If someone didn’t walk a dog as they were first time dog owners and didn’t know you should… it wouldn’t wash as an acceptable excuse, so I’m not sure why neglecting a horse because you didn’t know you shouldnt leave them stood in their own shit for 15 hours is somehow forgivable for a novice.

@Wildandwonderful 100%. We should never be afraid to give developmental feedback when we see anything that impacts on horse welfare

You don't know that they don't care about their pony just because they are always filming and posting.

And then there are the posts where kids ARE having lessons but they aren't the right TYPE of lessons according to the judgy pants on here.

Thank god I've never had to use a livery yard. My kids could ride appallingly in the privacy of our own field when they were beginners.

The pony isn't strong, that's my point. It doesn't need a Waterford. What it needs is for the kid to have regular lessons to learn how to ride the pony. The pony is green and unbalanced, they read that as the pony is strong so Facebook suggested a Waterford! That IS a welfare issue

Read my comments about pony left in all day without hay, badly fitting tack, very strong bit in the hands of an inexperienced rider but that's all fine and we shouldn't care about that according to some posters on here!

Massive difference in offering support than 'feedback'.
They aren't asking for an appraisal.

So what if they are using insta? How is that impacting on horse welfare?

You sound overbearing

I also grew up in the 80’s & 90’s helping out at a riding school and read all the pony books like Gill’s Gymkhana over and over. And the one thing that was instilled in us over and over, was that you always put your ponies needs and comfort before your own and that it’s never your pony’s fault.

And really you can’t go far wrong with this, even if you are very novice. But I do notice there is a lot less of this attitude. The kids all rip their hats and back protectors off and run for a drink, leaving ponies stood there sweating in their tack. And also agree with money spent on matchy matchy when it would be better spent on the saddle fitter or teeth being done. Lucky our yard manager has an excellent way with these sorts of parents and will intervene kindly and firmly.

Whatever, obviously many posters on here can justify excusing blatant welfare issues. I can't but obviously that is my problem.
I refer to developmental feedback in the context of instructors teaching not in supporting other liveries because part of being an instructor is giving feedback to people you are teaching. That was in reply to a comment about instructors not correcting poor riding of their students.

Don’t you think some of the problem is the way all the feed, tack, horses etc are marketed? When I was young all the ponies got pasture mix, chaff and sugar beet and nothing in the summer. But now there’s a feed for every eventually and in reality they just don’t need it. Ponies were matched (more so) to their rider and not their parents wallet. Horses sell so fast now for so much there’s pressure to buy whereas before you might visit a few times before committing to a purchase.

I think the sport is also becoming prohibitively expensive, there’s less livery, it’s overcrowded and expensive (where I live) used to be a farmers means of a few quid not so much ran as a business. So more assisted livery etc and less actual care for your horses. Cant imagine a 13 year old getting up, biking to the yard and sorting their pony before school which is what I did! You’d pay someone to do that and I don’t think it helps you understand your own horse.

@RedRosette2023 absolutely nailed it on the head there !

@RedRosette2023 yes definitely!

Yep 100%, sadly our yard owner is more hands off. Maybe if she was involved more then these things wouldn't happen as much.

Cant imagine a 13 year old getting up, biking to the yard and sorting their pony before school which is what I did! You’d pay someone to do that and I don’t think it helps you understand your own horse

You can't imagine it? My dcs have done their ponies by themselves since they were 7. I was in the background, but they were hacking out without me by 12. By 13 they were away on camps doing everything themselves and being shouted at daily!

Good 😊 that’s absolutely how it should be IMO. But I have seen yards change from DIY to fill/assisted livery and wealthy parents paying for all the ponies care. With the rider showing up at weekends.

Yy tbf dd has a friend who is full boarding. Horse schooled all year by a professional and girl gets on in the holidays and wins everything not that dd is jealous or anything

@twistyizzy I agree with you.
I'm from a completely non horsey family but was lucky enough to start riding at a small riding school with qualified instructors, and able to hire ponies for Pony Club events.
Nowadays it seems that helpers at riding schools just become instructors once they're 16 with no qualifications.
Yes we all start somewhere, we all need to learn, but not at the expense of the horse.
I see far too many parents buying their kids a youngster so they can learn together.
Far too many people with obese horses, who criticise people with thin (sometimes just actually fit) horses.
Too many people on DIY that sort their horses out early through the working week but rock up on a Saturday morning at noon, having put their horse in at 4pm because they were off out that night. I've offered to feed and turn out some of these, but told that they're OK. Even though I know they've run out of hay by 7pm.
I got my AI back in 1980, also my PC A test. I get people asking me why I go for lessons, am I getting any better, why don't I have lessons from Josephine Bloggs on the yard, she only charges £10, said JB must be good as she rides the mad mare that jogs sideways everywhere with its head stuck in her face, looks impressive to kids who know no better.

If I think back. The only marketing we saw was Horse&Pony magazine and the Robinsons catalogue. I do remember desperately wanting purple martingale stops and bit guards for xcountry to match my silk. And flappy over reach boots. But my pony didn’t need a martingale and the idea of my parents buying one for show is laughable.

As previous poster said, they all lived on grass and a feed of sugar beet or pony nuts in winter with hay. Now I struggle to decide what to feed DD’s little pony because there is just too much choice.

the problem is horse riding does has a snobby image problem, and it’s finding a way to make new comers feel welcome and not intimidated, but also support them to learn more about horse welfare and management.

The demise of riding school helpers is also a contributing factor. I was paying for lessons for my girls. But it is cheaper to have their own pony. And riding schools now don’t have those hoards of pony mad girls helping out all weekend and holidays for free in exchange for the odd ride. The insurance issues, bad behaviour of some children and litigious nature of some parents has spoiled all that.

Not the same but still regarding good horsemanship. Someone on my yard had a baby last year. She is obviously low on money due to being on mat leave. Her horse gets the bare minimum of hay as she can’t afford more. Her saddle doesn’t fit, horse lost condition when she didn’t ride while pregnant. It is obviously lame and needs the vet. But she’s still riding! She wants to ride so is riding!
I would rather be without a horse than keep one just to satisfy my own need to ride.