Am I being too ambitious?

[Handsfullofholes]

Am I being too ambitious with what I’m looking for?

Ideally what I’m looking for is a share horse I can ride between 3-5 days per week (fairly flexible on this) that I can take out to competitions, XC schooling, fun rides, with the view to do a couple of 90/100 events if I can (this is the ultimate dream).

I can’t seem to find anyone in the nearby vicinity, and (for example the horse I am sharing at the moment is lovely, but he’s very green and I’m feeling like I’m paying to school a horse for a novice owner).

Am I being too ambitious and should I be looking for a full loan or potentially buying? I’d rather share than do this as although I’m currently in a very flexible job, I’ll be looking at moving in the next year to two to progress my career.

Would welcome opinions!

My sharer does 2-3 days a week and is welcome to take her to shows/fun rides etc but she rarely does as it would be on her to sort transport.
I think you might find something but there may be ALOT of interest, I’d also expect to have to sort transport, do you have access to a box/can you tow? I think asking to compete someone’s horse and them ferry you there is a bit of an ask personally!
If you really just want to crack on and do your own thing on a quality horse buying is likely the best option- full loans are rare as hens teeth these days!

Hmm, what you are looking for is probably possible but likely not all that common so you might be looking a while. 90/100cm evening is thought of as 'proper' competition territory, around here at least. You do see/hear of shares available for fit and ready to go competition horses but (a) these are probably not advertised as widely in the 'normal' places (Facebook, Preloved etc) as people won't want chancers/novices/joyriders turning up and ruining or falling off their pride and joy, potentially the owners go more off recommendations or word of mouth and (b) while the owner might be very happy for a sharer to hack out/do fittening work and tick over the horse in the week, the weekend clinics and competition opportunities are 99% going to be theirs rather than the sharers. Anyone who has a nice amateur-friendly grassroots BE90/100 type but for whatever reason doesn't want to compete themselves would be more likely to sell (since such a horse would be worth £10k minimum and up to double that depending on age/breed/quirks), or if not to full loan or even lease (people will pay good money for the season esp for a schoolmaster or teen's first horse off ponies type) rather than getting a sharer, I'd have thought. You might have had more luck going into the winter also than prime start of the season competition time.

Which is not to totally discourage you but I think getting out eventing this summer might be a stretch without significant financial outlay, I think the way to do it would either be word of mouth and happen to find someone, ideally a friend of friend or similar in the right situation (perhaps someone injured, with childcare issues or newly pregnant but doesn't want horse to leave current yard/set up so needs a short term sharer) or if you're thinking more long term, go for a horse that needs more producing and make your own. I can understand you not wanting to put a lot in and add a lot of value to a horse that isn't yours so perhaps buying would be the way forward if you are experienced with youngsters, with a view to selling on at the end of the season or start of next season if you don't want to keep the horse long term, a few of the young instructors/grooms at my yard ATM have taken the plunge on buying a cheap youngster (ex racers aren't quite as cheap as they used to be but if you know where to look you can pick up a nice one very suitable for eventing for a fraction of the price of a warmblood or ISH equivalent), with some intense input over the summer you could def get out to some unaffiliated comps and if horse turns out even to be a nice all-rounder rather than serious competition type you should cover your costs and maybe even make a little money. But of course this will only work if you have the knowledge/experience to do it and time/facilities to bring on. Otherwise just keep looking and asking around for your competition type share, maybe accept that at first you're only likely to be hacking and perhaps acting as groom at comps and see where it goes from there? Good luck!

Yes I think you probably need to full loan or buy.

Most people that need a sharer want to do
the competing themselves, and being brutal the main motivation to have a sharer is for the cash. 3-5 days and regular competing pushes the owner out.

It’s not impossible- I once had an arrangement with a lovely friend who had her own yard and too many horses. I basically got to ride one of hers as much as I wanted and for free. I went to shows with her and my only costs were my entries. But that was a rare deal. Not the sort of thing often advertised.

You are better off with a loan definitely if you don’t want to commit to buying.

Thanks everyone for your feedback, you have pretty much confirmed what I thought. Really helpful!

@AlltheFs really good point about the main motivation for having a sharer being extra money and that more days pushes the owner out.

Is leasing particularly common in the U.K. these days?

Re leasing, probably not that common overall and certainly not that much advertised/talked about publicly but does happen. Especially for children's/teens ponies and at the higher level of competition in BSJA/dressage, eye watering sums can be paid for a proper competitive child's pony - my friend is involved in producing BSJA ponies, he sometimes brokers or advises on lease deals which are never made public but when he's told me the amounts that have changed hands I do wonder why people don't just buy apony for their child if they're willing to spend so much, but then you look at it as a risk equation, if your child only has one more year on 138s or something then you don't want to take the full risk of buying... Anyway I don't really know how you'd go about looking for a lease of an eventer - word of mouth/recommendation from your instructor would be first port of call...

Leasing for eventing exists it’s not super common but it does happen. However as a PP said it’s most common with children’s SJ ponies.
First thing to consider, for a proven horse, likely insanely expensive. I would be surprised if less than £1k a month, then you’ve got your costs of keeping the horse, and then if you wanted to event, realistically these days running at a BE100 is going to cost about £250-300 a pop (which is why I didn’t renew a few years back…)

Another issue is that I would expect people would want a home with a rider with a track record, the value of a competition horse lives or dies on their record and if they have 2 years where they are picking up cricket scores every event, that makes the horse harder to sell.

With the cost of leasing id put that money aside and look to buy!

I agree with the other comments, it's so expensive and takes a massive commitment to get a horse to that level. I wouldn't do it to have someone else do the lions share of the riding and risk injury to the horse/ inconsistent training. At that stage if wanted riding would pay a proven professional. I wonder what sort of owner the initial proposal would suit.

@Lastqueenofscotland2 that's really helpful thank you, and you’re right, it would be better to save the money to buy I think.

The usual equation for working out lease fees is one third of the horses value per year. The main advantage is there is no point lying about the horse as you would simply cancel the lease and stop paying.
The type of horse you are talking about would on average be worth around 15k depending on age and competition history. So expect to pay a weekly lease fee of at least £100.
When you look at it like this you can see why this type is not widely available to share.

Can I just ask a silly question about loaning/leasing as we have a BJSA competition pony who is amazing but my daughter might grow out of soon. How do people trust riders to compete their horses (unless they are professional riders)? What happens if the rider injures the horse during training/competition? Surely it's a huge risk for the owner? Why would they agree to it?

@XelaM in the case of leasing, then the fee can be quite high for a proven FEI pony for example so presumably that’s why owners would lease. As for loaning, yes it’s a risk but most loan contracts would stipulate that the loaner pays for insurance (often kept in the owner’s name so there’s no break in cover) or is otherwise responsible for any vet treatment incurred during the loan. People would generally loan when they want to have control over the pony’s future - there were a couple of ponies at our pony club who’d been with several local families for a couple of years at a time teaching various children and then went home to retire. Because of the age limit on ponies, if it’s a good 148 then there would be a queue of very competent 14/15 year olds who’ve been competing for years but whose parents wouldn’t want to buy a pony at that point so the owner would be able to choose carefully

Loads of fb groups around for your situation, if you've not already tried this route. My dd also put an add on oreloved and has managed to bag herself an ideal situation for her

I get helpers in for my horses. Not sharers. There is rarely any equal situation between a horse owner and someone who comes in to ride a horse. I’m paying a good 4 figure sum each month to keep my horses fed, shod, housed and healthy, and there are not many sharers out there who appreciate just how much it costs to keep a horse before you even get it out of the stable. Your comments on how you feel you are paying to school a green horse show that you don’t really understand that. You want more time on someone else’s horse, but you don’t want to school a green horse yourself - a horse will never get to be schooled if you want it 3-5 days a week, for less than it costs to keep, and don’t want to have to pay to school it yet want to ride it more so the owner ends up riding it less. On top of this, you want a serious competition horse, and to be allowed to take it out to events. Before I let anyone at all take my horse off the yard I would want to see evidence of ability and commitment. And I’d need to see that they could get themselves to all these places they want to take my horse to.

I’ve got helpers who DO take my horses out competing, to rallies, lessons, hunting and fun rides. But, as an owner does with their horse, they have built up to that over time. An owner rarely jumps on a horse and heads straight out to do a BE 100. They build up to that, it takes hard work. I would be wary of anyone who said straight up that level of competition is what they were aiming at with my horse before I’d even seen them get on it!

My current helpers include a girl who is taking my pony to Pony Club, camps and some competitions. I take her to some of these events, and sometimes coach her. She puts in loads of work, and in return I try to get her the best opportunities with the horses. She has taken all of my horses now on outings, including my own top level competition horse, because she’s put the time and effort in at home. I have another helper who has been down twice since February, after answering an advert to help get a long distance horse fit for events beginning in May. She talks a lot about wanting to compete, but has not even got to the point where I feel comfortable letting her ride any of the horses without supervision yet, and at this rate she may well end up being elbowed out by another keener helper who is asking for rides.

If you aren’t buying your own horse, you’ve got to remember that the owner puts in the lions share of the investment and effort to have a horse. If you can’t or don’t want to buy your own, you have to fit in with what the owners want. Sorry to be blunt.

Sorry but I wouldn't let anyone take my horse eventing at any height unless I was there to oversee. I have asked my horse's previous to compete once or twice a year at heights I'm not comfortable with, to keep his hoof in but I wouldn't let anyone take him out of my sight.
With a previous horse I've had a sharer and let them compete at our yard but wouldn't want him taking off the yard without me there.
I think you need to save up and but your own.

Not a silly question, basically though you do the appropriate background checks, set parameters, use a loan contract and then do check ups regularly but at the end of the day you have to accept there's a certain level of risk that can't be fully eliminated and if you're leasing someone the pony for competition purposes they do have to be trusted to get on with it.

For the lease deals of BSJA ponies I've heard (second hand, I don't have the cash to be involved in such a thing directly 😂) the loaner, or more exactly, their parents, are usually not short of money and they aren't afraid to spend it to get results, so the pony is often going into a pretty Gucci situation, one of a string, full/5 star competition livery, regular lessons from top trainers, travel on a top of the range box, all the physio etc needed, so you'd be pretty assured of the pony being looked after and the rider well supervised. Not to say that accidents, illnesses or plain old mistreatment can't occur in such situations, of course it does but at the top end BSJA's a small enough and gossipy enough world that you can learn fairly quickly who's to be trusted and who's not, who's a sensible rider and who's more of the yank and kick-em round school of riding (YouTube videos usually freely available in this day and age after all). And like Please says if you have a pony that valuable you'd def take out good insurance too. Although if protecting the value of the pony was prime consideration you'd probably be better advised to sell while pony healthy and results good as leasing will always be slightly more of a gamble (like the PP said the lease fee is set at a % of horses worth so you can feasibly make a profit as the owner but can also incur a big loss if pony goes lame or decides he doesn't want to jump any more a week into being leased out).

Loans of more 'average'/lower level competition ponies are of course a total other kettle of fish. Usually the owner's motivation there is much more to keep oversight and possession of the pony rather than any attempt to financially realise/recoup it's financial value/cost, so it would be all about vetting potential loaners very carefully, taking references (or loaning to a friend or acquaintance you know is trustworthy) keeping in touch (ideally pony stays on own yard or very local). Have to say since horse prices shot up you really don't see offers of free full loan of a genuinely healthy sane and ready to go competition ponies very often, if at all any more, probably for the very reason you are asking about, people aren't willing to risk them being injured or getting into poor habits and reduced performance on someone else's watch which could lead to a loss of £10k or more or even for a relatively modest animal so fair enough really IMO. Full loans of very young/old/green/lame/mad animals you do see, or occasionally you see shorter term loans where the owner is pregnant or injured or something but as this thread has shown, very rarely old school semi-permanent or LWVTB arrangement for nice quality horses are vanishingly rare really.

So I meant to conclude, if you want to keep hold of Dd's outgrown pony and aren't bothered about selling, you are probably best off loaning out to someone you already know - I think you livery on a SJ yard so ideally someone already on the yard you know to be a sensible, quiet rider with responsible parents, and that you can keep a discrete eye on. Remember the pony won't be bothered about competing/results even if she is good at her job, so prioritise finding a reliable trustworthy person who'll do right by the horse over someone likely to be out every weekend, if pony is everything you say and you aren't going to charge, just ask them to cover the livery, you'll probably have a queue out the door as that's a great and generous offer for someone

I think you'd be better off with a full loan.

I loan my horse out. He's competed to BE Novice. I didn't want to ride anymore, but I didn't want to sell him and have no control over where he ended up.

So I loaned him out to a lovely lady. She does what she likes with him.

So sorry for the late reply and thank you for such a detailed post!

Our pony is amazing in that she's super careful and never knocks and LOVES to compete. If they ever don't place it's because my daughter makes mistakes (i.e. forgetting the course 🤦‍♀️) not the pony. Otherwise she always goes double clear. She really goes all out at competitions and is not fazed by anything. She's a real little jumping machine and such a character. But the homes you're talking about would probably want a pony jumping 1.30m? My daughter has never jumped higher than courses of 1.15m on her. Also, our pony is not a full 14.2 but more 14.1 when she's been measured for competitions. So I don't think such a high-level Gucci ( 😂 ) home would be interested.

I wouldn't dream of leasing my dds event horse when she goes to uni. I'd put him on full loan to someone wanting to do BE90/Be100 and even then I'd have to know them or at least have them recommended to me.