How much would you pay...

[Pommbear]

Hi all, I'm currently in the 'blindly in love' stage of buying a horse so need to be brought back down to earth. How much would you pay for:

• 14.2 12 year old heavy cob

• safe to hack alone or in company and fine in traffic

• forward but not strong

• in current home is a hack/the kids occasionally plod round the field

• never been schooled but will lunge okay and pop a jump...ideally I'd like to bring on the schooling but not sure if it's too late for him to learn at this point (for example....I tried a circle....was more of drifty wiggly hexagon)

• is stiff and unfit but this can improve

• vets had a look - picked up hes slightly pigeon toed but otherwise no concerns

• sweet nature and generally a nice person

• loads of feather - has mites but the jabs keep on top of them

• doesn't come with tack

Anyway!

So they're asking 5.5...thinking of offering 5

Is this crazy?

Sorry about the spacing...my phone doesn't like mumsnet

Before I saw the price, I was going to suggest £5k so sounds about right.
I don’t know where you are but these sort of ponies are gold dust where I am. Market only seems to have green 4 year olds. Bring sold as suitable for novice.
I think if it’s passed a vetting then £5k is a reasonable price in this market. Not a bargain but certainly not over priced from what I’ve seen.

£5k is about right however my fear with unfit horses is they can be very different characters once they are fit…

Thanks for the replies, reassuring to hear 5 is reasonable.

I havent bought a horse in 10 years so this is all quite new again!

On a side note - does anyone have any advice on the school front? I don't think he's ever heard of an outline let alone worked on one. Going to go back to basics with lots or lunging etc...I dont plan to go to badminton but a prelim test might be nice

I wouldn’t lunge, I’d go back to basics ridden though, lots and lots of walk work, don’t focus on where there head is, but working nicely and politely off the leg, bending correctly and working from behind. Their head will end up in the right place.
If they are really cobby they may never be on the vertical but I’d not be focusing on lunging in side reins or whatever that forces them into an outline.

I've semi-successfully reschooled a couple of cobby types. Number 1 thing I'd say is get lessons, as many and regularly as you can afford. There's nothing like having a trusted and experienced eye to guide you from the ground. Also contrary to popular opinion not all cobs are the same, some are sensitive, some are lazy etc so someone who knows you and your horse and can help you with a tailored plan is invaluable. That being said, in general I'd say do most of your fittening work out hacking, ideally up and down hills - better for their minds and bodies IMO than too much school work. Keep school sessions short - literally 10 mins in walk to start with is plenty, you can do a short school session then go out for a hack or warm up on a hack then come back into the school once you've got him nicely energized and forwards. Lunging can be a useful tool but don't do too much of it, repeatedly spinning round in tight circles is bad for their joints and I'd avoid too much 'kit' unless you really know what you are doing - I prefer to do ground work in hand or on long reins than lunging which I really only use as a quick way to get the tickles out of something too fresh or to build fitness in an already established horse.

The typical 'issues' cobs have due to their confirmation are too much power sitting through the shoulders and not enough behind, leading to them working downhill, and overly short necks and gullets leading to behind the vertical (this is is why it's particularly important like LastQueen says not to tie his head down with side reins or worry too much about 'outline' as you'll likely just exacerbate a problem rather than helping). Everything needs to be about working through from behind and over their backs in a relaxed rhythm without rushing or tipping onto the forehand and then about softening through the poll and mouth without bracing or curling up. The first things to teach are to go forward off the leg consistently as lots of cobs are kept chronically behind the aids as a 'kick along type', and also to stop politely off a quiet seat aid (yes a cob can feel this just as much as a warmblood can!) and what a half halt means, you can do this through lots and lots of transitions, upwards and downwards and within the paces too (as I say you can do this on hacks as well as in the school). To try and achieve that 'push' from behind and over the back that cobs can struggle with polework exercises are great (although all my cobs have been chronic disrespecters/bashers of poles ), you can do all sorts of patterns, straight lines, curves, on a circle etc - can start off in hand and progress to ridden in walk trot and canter. Finally to achieve softness and suppleness you can work on lateral work, school exercises like shallow loops, spiralling circles, serpentines etc - throughout trying as hard as you can not to worry about where his head is, if anything up and hollow although not 'correct' is to be preferred to tucked into chest and behind the vertical...

When you say the vet has had a look does that mean you’ve had a vetting? Is the stiffness caused by arthritis possibly?

Have you had a full vetting? My concerns are stiff and unfit, only does a bit of hacking or bimbles around the field, isn't schooled and can't do a circle. At 12 years old, he should be in his prime. What if the reason he's been sat around doing nothing is because he's not physically capable? Id pass on this one tbh.

Can't improve on what has already been said and agree with:
-get lessons with an instructor used to starting off cobs
-ditch the lunging + use of gadgets. Long reining is far better for them
-warning signs around stiffness so make sure you get a 5 stage vet (you will have to anyway if you pay 5K and want horse insuring)

• remember the hind end is the engine, you can't get contact without horse going forwards so this is what you need to concentrate on, not where the head is
• polework and hacking will help with strengthening and getting the hindquarters engaged
• only do very short bursts of schooling (10-15 mins) no more than 2-3 times a week
• cobs can get strong once they are fit (if they are allowed to get strong) so bear this in mind

Thanks for the advice.

He has had a full vetting - has just been a family pony and been played around with. Not everyone wants to compete etc so that's understandable

My thoughts. Stiff? Why?

What did the vetting say? What do you mean by "stiffness" my horse was a little stiff and it turned out to be kissing spines, she had no major red flags but after treatment is now a supple and bendy old lady.

Mites in a cob also would be a red flag for me, itchy feathers can be a sign of lots of more serious things, mallanders/sallanders and CPL: ceh.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/health-topics/chronic-progressive-lymphedema-cpl

I'm maybe out of touch but I can't see what warrants that as a £5k horse, £3k gamble for hopefully a safe horse but he's not done anything (supposedly) other than bimble around.

I know prices are a bit crazy at the moment, but they are asking too much. They haven’t put the time or care into him, well doesn’t sound that way, to ask for that price. Have you had him vetted, or someone else?

Its really hard to know what to do!

He has been out of work and done very little for a few months due his previous families circumstances (i know this to be true) - he is now with a dealer to sell him on

I have ridden him 4/5 times now - the first time i hacked him having not been sat on for 2 months and he was good as gold. We have been for a few hacks (road, common, encountered dogs, lorries etc), done a bit in the school and popped a jump

I have had him vetted myself and vet is happy

Have spoken to the seller today, they wont budge lower than 5k - have said they have had interest at 6k (but they would say that)

my non-horsey OH has also had a plod round the common and he looked after him nicely too

Part of me just wants to rescue him from the dealer and give him a loving forever home (which is what his old family wanted in the first place) but i am a sucker for an animal with a back story......

it is a LOT of money

ahh

If he's safe and you like him then he's worth whatever you'll pay. Get a 5 stage vetting with bloods.

Who is the dealer? I’d be wary of a dealers yard not having them in something resembling full work, if you feel like you’d be “rescuing” them I’d be wary of the set up…

Also unfit horses are often very quiet, fit horses can be a very different kettle of fish.

Who is the dealer? That changes a lot as for £5.5k I’d like them to have put the work in to at least be supple in the school.

I would not buy a horse that's stiff and unfit thinking that you know what you're buying. He could change a great deal and have his own ideas about being in work and being fed to reflect that. Unless you're experienced you should buy what you need when it's right in front of you.

Another way to look at it is, you’re not rescuing but freeing up and enabling the dealer to get another in. There are some good pages on Facebook where you can research dealers you are interested in.

Or go to a rescue, if you are looking for something that needs work putting into it.

What would you tell a friend? Saying that if you have had him vetted and the vet has said he’s fit for purpose and you’ve had that vetting done knowing the price.

I find it a bit odd that he passed the vetting to be honest.

I’d definitely recommend rehoming from one of the big rescues, Blue Cross will pass ownership on with most of their horses now, we had a pony from them years ago and they offered us ownership (sadly declined as pony outgrown and I wouldn’t have felt right selling/loaning out myself). They have a great support network without being suffocating.

Also was it the dealers vetting? If so get your own… and have bloods done