Free livery in exchange for yard work - is this still a thing?

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Is it still common or acceptable to offer free DIY livery in exchange for yard work?
Probably not anything daily, but turning out and checking/filling nets and then covering holidays with a bit more work.

DH and I are making a much-awaited move back to the countryside after a long time in London.

We both grew up rurally in horsey and farming families so think we know the score, but am also aware things have changed in 20 years..!

It will be a private yard, we won’t be taking paying liveries but wondering if this could be mutually beneficial

Where will you be located please?

I have done this in the past, twice, and been relieved when the livery left both times. I advertised free livery in exchange for yard help as I work away from home, and found that I was doing more looking after the livery’s horse than they were doing helping me. You have to have a really firmly understood agreement between you about what you are offering and what your expectations are. In my case, I found myself with an extra horse in my yard with an owner who regularly just did not turn up even to look after her own horse, let alone carry out the yard help she was supposed to provide as her part of the deal. No help and an extra horse to look after - and I couldn’t even sell it because it was not mine! You have to be careful too if you consider renting out a stable. There are insurance and tax implications that make it a minefield if you do things properly, but a potential headache if you don’t do it by the book.

Personally I wouldn’t bother the insurance implications could be a real headache, I think wanting someone to do nets and a skip out three/four days a week who can also essentially offer full livery when you’re away is really unrealistic too.
Most people who are good at what they do value their work, and would not expect to do yard work without actual payment, so I’d also be worried about the sort of idiots you might attract

Thanks for the replies. Looks like it is back to the drawing board.

I benefitted from arrangements like this growing up by doing weekend work at a local yard in exchange for livery and being able to use their school and jumps, because we had neither at home. And we had a couple of ponies at home who belonged to a woman who had divorced and couldn’t afford livery for her kids ponies any more, so did work for us

I was hoping to find the same but as @Lastqueenofscotland2 said, it’s possibly needle in a haystack trying to find someone.

With the increase in livery bills and the cost of running a yard nowadays i would think this type of arrangement would be extremely rare.

Would that not work in my favour?

Presumably rising livery bills are going to make it appealing to someone to get a free box and grazing in exchange for an extra few mins of work when you’re already doing your own horse?

Sorry I meant that the livery would be getting a much better deal than you would be so I wouldn't imagine that many yard owners do it.

I suppose it’s not a million miles away from working pupils being paid peanuts to work full time so they can have their own horse with them, or country houses who have ‘a couple’ living in the gatehouse in return for doing the gardening and cleaning?

We won’t be taking paying liveries. I don’t want to hassle or politics or security issues, but we will have more space than we need so thought this could potentially be mutually beneficial by saving me and a livery-user some money

But I think it’s going to be harder than anticipated to find the right person

At least round my way, there are quite a lot of good freelance grooms who work by word of mouth so if you're looking for holiday cover etc that may be a less stressful solution - and probably cost about the same as no insurance issues that comes with liveries, less wear and tear on fields of an extra horse etc

Yes it does still happen. You will need to ask around as it is not often publicised. There is also an occassional post on Facebook groups for livery's available and wanted so I suggest checking your area.

I'm sure it does still happen but probably a bit on the QT (horse industry notoriously dodgy in this regard) as there are various implications including the fact that you could easily be legally becoming their employer even if no money is changing hands, meaning you could theoretically have to pay minimum wage, employers NI, employers liability insurance etc., which probably equally apply to your other examples e.g. working pupils, the 'couple' living in the lodge etc although at least in those examples you are legally allowed to deduct a certain amount from NMW for providing accommodation (for the person, not the horse!). Also possibly if you are advertising openly for liveries even if you aren't taking cash potentially that would be seen as starting a business and attracting business rates etc? This is an old H&H thread but discusses the relevant issues.

Also my worry is if you really are offering a good deal i.e. very little daily work and very infrequent holidays for free livery on a nice yard with good facilities, so they're getting a true bargain, that sort of thing tends naturally to attract CFs, in my experience, the type of person that automatically expects something for nothing so doesn't 'get' when they're onto a good thing, and given this person would be at your home, caring for your animals, you'd want to be able to absolutely trust 100% them particularly when you go on holiday and they need to look after the animals - I can def see the sort of person who's gotten very comfortable getting free livery for almost nothing for months on end kicking off that they 'didn't realise' they'd be in sole charge or are 'too busy now' to do it. Plus of course unless you are squillionaires and are going to be buying a vast place with acres and acres of excellent turnout and two indoor schools, a horse walker and a lunging ring you'll be presumably sharing facilities at quite close quarters with them and so need to be compatible on when/how you use any riding areas, do you/can you ride in the fields, turnout needs (e.g. unless you are easily able to separate out your grazing or offer individual turnout you wouldn't want someone with a bolshy mare beating up your quiet geldings or someone with a high needs horse that needs super careful grazing management and small electric pens or a track system when yours are hardy types who you just chuck out into the field without thought), how tidy you keep tack rooms and feed rooms and so on, what your attitude to children and dogs and friends/sharers coming for a ride and parking lorries and noise and mess on the yard - all the usual annoyances of livery but without a neutral yard manager to set the rules and sort out any disputes. Basically I can see this arrangement working well with a trusted friend or very nice reasonable person if you can find one but when it comes to strangers with horses we all know not everyone who seems nice and reasonable turns out to be so!

I think there are so many rules about pay, min wages etc to be able to do this, also insurance will be a nightmare, especially if things go wrong and the ‘not a livery’ is injured and decides to sue you. I am on a really good yard and the person who runs it is very careful about anything like this. You could have HMRC after you!

Also you could get someone who cannot afford the horse and dumps it on you!

I have this arrangement now. I get free DIY livery for one horse (I have 2) in return for occasional help with the owners horses if she's ill or away.

Works for me as I'm there doing my own horse anyway and I couldn't afford to pay livery for 2.

Probably helps that I'm a freelance groom anyway, and therefore fully insured, reliable and with 20+ years experience

I have a friend with this type of arrangement, however there is about 10 family equines, and it's basically employing and properly paying a groom with stabling and travel to shows included as part payment.

It depends on the person. I am amazed by how rude people can be on other's yards - breaking tools and not even mentioning it/ tidying up the broken metal around horses. Inviting other people over and not even introducing them. Driving so fast around the farm that the owner of the access bans them. Very selfish and rude behaviour of people I otherwise thought had considerate manners. These were just temporary visits but mean I would be very reluctant to enter into any long term arrangements. I have always kept things tidy and considerate when visiting yards and assumed others would too bit both the individuals I am thinking of here took no responsibility and even sulked when it looked like their behaviour had been noticed. Unbelievable

We don’t have horses but do have stables and pasture which we rent to one person for very little. She looks after the stables as if they are her own, everything is clean and tidy, she gets people out to fix things that are broken and she looks after our animals when we are away and keeps an eye on the house.

You will absolutely be able to find someone, just ask around the village to see what the locals say first. Livery is in very short supply where we live and I know in our circumstances we could get more for our stables but our informal arrangement works for us.

I've done it in the past but only with someone I already knew. She had free grazing (no stabling) but paid her horses contribution to hay in the winter.
It worked well for us but I would only ever do it with someone I knew well and trusted. I kept horses for fun not for them to become more work!

I do this on an informal basis for a reduced livery fee. I doubt you’ll have any problem finding someone willing as long as you are prepared to help out and provide cover if needed.

Wow OP, we would LOVE an arrangement like that!

My daughter has two ponies and she's at the yard every day after school and all day on weekends doing yard work anyway. It would be a dream to have free livery in return.

Round here that sort of arrangement would attract skint youngsters who would mean well but would do a rushed job when you were away (and probably have a massive party when you're on holiday too)

I've know friends who did this the other way - paid a reduced loan fee for the pony they were loaning in the private yard in exchange for providing holiday cover. They all fell out when the owners took their third three week holiday that year.

in our yard it’s done, but not in the usual way.

one of the girls offers yard work for a fee, so she will fill haynets, turn out, groom, whatever for a fixed amount.

so while it’s not technically free livery for yard work, it offsets her costs. Added bonus is she’s not tied into it, the arrangement is between her and the other horse owners not the yard owner, and lots of the other liveries need the cover for holiday, illness, or whatever random reason.

works for everyone, and the yard owner doesn't need to worry about managing what would technical be an employee.

Most people who are good at what they do value their work, and would not expect to do yard work without actual payment,

I'd have thought this til I spent 2 years paying for shares where I paid a significant amount of money to school and exercise other peoples horses and doing all their yard work 😆. It actually sounds like an amazing deal and I'd bite the hand off someone offering free livery. We have a slightly different arrangement where we pay going rate for diy livery bit all muck in to provide each other with full livery. We only need to cover 6 'shifts' rather than 14. Hay and feed is included so it's actually not even diy prices. You could definitely work something out if you found the right person