Is this ok?

[anyideasthatcouldhelp]

We live in an area which is very horsey. Most are looked after incredibly well and live very happy lives. However we occasionally see large groups (20-30) put onto fields by owners living quite a way away. Sometimes Cobs, sometimes a mixture of breeds. We unfortunately had an incident within the last 8 years where a horse in a big group died through neglect, despite considerable phone calls to the RSPCA to ask for advice and locals trying to find a way of helping the owners. All horses were taken into a refuge and the owner went to prison.

There is currently a group of around 20 Cobs in a quite large field - 10 acres. They don't look in too bad condition- but you can't get close enough to see as they are kept next to a main road. They are not lying down or standing looking depressed/ill. So hopefully they are o.k? It's just (and this is my main question) they are never given hay. Not even during this very cold snap. So I'm trying to educate myself and I guess reassure myself that whilst this is not ideal, Cobs can withstand this?

The local feed supplier says the owner buys pony nuts every 2-3 days and then feeds them - he lives around 50 miles away. The field is not muddy - you can see green (or frost) but the grass is obviously very short. What is also worrying is that the ice is probably not broken in the one trough every day...can the horses get any moisture from the frost?

I'd like to offer the owner that I'll come in and break the ice and put down some hay if he pays for it - but I don't know the person. I'd also potentially expect a mouthful - for interfering! I called the RSPCA to ask for advice about whether no hay was a problem. They said nothing on this - just that that they now only visit to check if horses are literally skeletal. And to keep them updated. I guess what we are seeing here is horses living a really hard life, which of course is not illegal. And it is now probably an even greater national problem -with the cost of living crisis.

So can you reassure me pls- I'm losing sleep over this, fearing we'll have another tragedy. I feel so guilty that it happened in our area last time. And I keep hoping for no frost each morning. I appreciate Cobs are hardy types....can they cope without hay, virtually no grass but with a few nuts every few days? They don't seem to be in work - I think they are unbroken mostly mares and colts. Thanks & so sorry for the long explanation.

No hay does not sound great but if they can graze, are fed every day and not skinny/underweight it's very unlikely they'll die of starvation - they might get stomach ulcers from lack of fibre (horse digestion is designed to be constantly digesting plant matter) but whilst painful these aren't life threatening. Most field-kept horses do have hay in the winter but to be fair fresh grass is more natural and better for them so it's a needs must as most people don't have good enough grazing rather than a first preference, if there is still a reasonable covering of grass and the horses are looking fairly well then it's probably not a major concern. Although if the owner is investing money in feed and coming to feed most day s/he'd be likely better off putting down hay than pony nuts, if the horses are not in work they usually don't need any hard feed but do need constant access to forage - but then again perhaps the owner has their reasons and if some of the mares are still feeding foals then they may need stud balancer and so on, so that might be the reason for the hard feed.

Similarly, the ice, I always check and break ours everyday but some horses do drink very little, there's a lot of moisture in the grass so they may not need the trough as much.

Are their feet being regularly trimmed as this to me is a key sign of true neglect as opposed to just a bit of laissez-faire ownership? Keeping uncut colts in with the mares is also asking for trouble, the boys can get a mare (including their own mother, ickily) pregnant from approx 1 year onwards and similarly if there are fillies in with entire males they could get pregnant from yearlings upwards but it's not particularly healthy for them (teen motherhood!) - also keeping more than one entire adult male together can be problematic - juvenile colts will happily run together as a band but once they hit adulthood they will likely start to fight amongst themselves...

Overall I can understand your concern and there's lots of things that sound not ideal but equally it may like you say just be on the robust/au nautrelle scale of horse management rather than active cruelty. Either way you've done what you can by involving and taking advice from the RSPCA so I don't think you need to be awake at night feeling guilty, they're not your horses. I'm not sure about your offer to the owner, it's very kind but a lot of responsibility to take on yourself even if the owner agrees to it - what if they stop paying you for the hay (hay for 20 horses for 6 months of the year will cost quite a lot and putting in too little could be worse than none at all as they might fight over it)? What if you get there and one of the horses is missing, trapped in the fencing or obviously injured or sick, who will sort out coming to rescue them/calling the vet, what if owner isn't bothered or can't afford the vet's fees (you don't sound like the sort of person who'd just let the owner know and then walk away from a horse in pain, but vets bills for horses easily run into thousands and thousands of £ so not reasonable for you to pay yourself either), also are you experienced around horses? Large herd of big, excitable, hungry, semi-feral horses possibly including uncut stallions/colts, slippery muddy field and uncertain handler coming in staggering under a heavy load of forage, could be very dangerous... this sounds more like a case for professional involvement to me. I'm sorry the RSPCA have been rubbish (they're not much use in my experience), maybe try some of the other charities, the BHS, World Horse Welfare or Blue Cross might perhaps assist? Good luck!

I'm an experienced horse owner and wouldn't give this a second thought if the horses look bright and well.

If you reckon half a bale per horse per day for 6 months, for 20 horses I think that would be around 7k.

I'm basing this on a group of native ponies in my village who get nothing apart from grass ever and are unrugged. I know at least two of them are 20+ and they all seem very happy. They've lived like that for over 15 years that I know of.

Thank you so much for your replies and advice - most appreciated.

I think he removes ponies and puts in different ones - possibly for the reasons you mention Maxelly. And you are right, that going in to the field with up to 20 could be really dangerous. I've had my own horses but even so would find it pretty intimidating- fortunately the field is split into two so you can see when they are a few acres away from you - but I guess they would move fairly sharpish if food was in the offing. Ok you've reassured me - I'll just keep an eye to make sure there are none on the ground but will stop worrying so much.
Thank-you all :)

You are kind to be concerned but as you say it I'd dangerous to go in with horses and if there is grass they may well be fine. I have a cob in my mixed herd which lives out and it's a challenge to feed her hay and keep her weight down. They are usually very 'good doers', I heard someone say once their cob could get fat in a car park. I weigh tape mine every month and she has on occasion gained weight through the winter when everyone else dropped it. This is an issue as lots of grass comes in spring which is not very far away and they should be going into it lean to avoid health issues mainly laminitis. Also by the time I get to the field mine have generally broken the ice themselves in the trough even in the coldest weather which I find reassuring

Also I agree @maxelly my three are costing £9 a day in hay most days