Not sure if dd's lessons are up to scratch, thoughts please

[teatimetreat]

Hi all,

First time posting in the tack room so hello!

So, my dd (age 10) has been riding 18 months and she is currently at the cantering and small jump stage. However, I feel her instructor is missing out a lot of important work.

The class has never done much in the way of flatwork and they consistently take the format of a short trot, a few canters, then they start jumping - one jump always in the same location and always the one direction.

Having ridden when I was a child I remember working lots on flatwork - circles, changing rein, rising/sitting trot, no stirrups, poles etc, then the second part of the lesson would be jumping, but this would vary in placement, direction etc.

Am I right that lessons should focus more on the nuts and bolts of flatwork rather than just popping a jump the whole time? It's been so long since I've ridden I'm not sure if I'm recalling lessons from when I was novice or more experienced.

I don't want to change school on a whim as she enjoys it and the girls in the class are lovely. But it's niggling at me, and I want her to get the best experience she can for her own enjoyment - and safety too.

If read this far, thank you 😂, I'd love to know the thoughts of those more involved in riding lessons and different schools as to the best teaching approach.

Have quite a bit of experience of riding schools and if it's a class specifically focussed on jumping I don't think it's unreasonable that they do a quick warm up and then start jumping fairly swiftly rather than spending half the class on flatwork. But only ever jumping the same single fence in one direction doesn't sound great, they should def be building up their skills with things like doing little grids and stringing fences together, different lines (keeping the fences small and within pony's easy capability) with the eventual aim of doing a small course of 6-8 fences, how long that takes will of course vary but that should be the goal IMO, and I don't see how only ever doing one fence will get them there (unless ofc they're really new to jumping and they are still at the point of securing their jump position and not loosing balance/pulling on the mouth etc in which case I can understand the approach).

Also I don't think it's great for any rider to only ever have jumps lessons, even if jumping is their thing, like you say any showjumper or eventer needs good flatwork as a foundation to be able to steer, maintain rhythm and balance, control and adjust the pace etc and a certain amount of focus needs to be given to rider position and effective aids etc which is usually easier on the flat. So yes what you say rings some alarm bells for me.

But I don't think it needs to be as drastic as changing schools entirely, I'd have a chat with the instructor or whoever is in charge, find out if her class is definitely dedicated to jumping only for the foreseeable or if they can alternate flat and jumping , or whether there's an appropriate group your DD can join that does do flat? Different schools work differently with this, in my experience the larger schools are more likely have seperate defined classes e.g. children's jumping, children's flat, adult beginner jumping etc whereas smaller places will often just group by age or general ability and can flex what the class does to the needs/preferences of the group, if the system isn't clear at your place then you need to ask. Or the best option may be, if the school offers private lessons, to alternate weeks for your DD, one week do the jumping group and the next have a private lessons where she can either improve her flatwork or focus more on her jumping or even both. At a lot of schools it's common for the DC to get a bit stuck if they only ride in a group, the teachers do tend to follow a set formula for ease (a lot of it is laziness/logistics of not wanting to bring out a lot of extra poles and explain a new exercise and so on , so they stick to the easy predictable pattern) and that can mean the DC that get to a fair level but aren't really progressing don't stand out as they easily manage what they're asked every week but don't improve much. You could even try a new school for privates in the summer holidays or something and still bring her back for the group at the old school if she prefers it after, or similar? Good luck and happy to answer any further questions!

@maxelly Thank you, that's a really helpful answer. The class is meant to be general one, not just jumping, the school is quite small and they don't really have specialised classes (having said that they are a very long established school but they have really scaled down the past 10 years).

I'd say she can jump a fence quite well, her form is quite good, but she would be less confident at doing a good circle in canter for instance - it's like there's a section missing, and I wouldn't be confident with her going a hack without a leader as I feel she wouldn't have the skills to properly control the pony if something happened. But her jumping form is good 😂

I'm the only parent in the class parents who is from any kind of riding background so the others haven't picked up on anything. I don't want to look like the pushy parent in saying something but I might try and find a friendly way to do so!

My dd has been riding a couple of years. She was riding at ‘stables A’ for some time. They were expensive but the lesson covered everything, some walk, Trottering, cantering and popping a jump. It was a fun lesson. However I never felt that she was learning the solid foundations.

she now goes to ‘stables b’. This yard is cheaper but the lessons purely focus on getting the solid foundations right. Some weeks they don’t even canter! She has learnt loads however it just feels that she isn’t progressing to the next level and I do feel that it’s as though they started her again?

I’m not really helping 🤦‍♀️ But what I would say is to have a chat. Like you I didn’t want to come across as a pushy parent but decided to have a chat and was actually happy with the feedback/progression report given!

My daughter rides at a very large riding school and it's exactly how @maxelly said. They have many different groups.

What you describe would be a dedicated jump lesson for beginners, but the instructors would also do pole work, set a small jump course, teach proper jump position etc. She has to learn to jump a course if she wants to do shows.

But in addition to jumping, my daughter has been doing regular flat work lessons for years. Is there a Pony Club near you that your daughter could join? She would be doing a lot of flat work as part of Pony Club. I would follow @maxelly 's advice and not necessarily change schools, but get additional flat work lessons (or Pony Club lessons) elsewhere in addition to the jumping lessons.

The problem is in a group situation if the teacher did a lesson in walk / trot lengthening / collecting etc and a bit of basic lateral work 80% of the kids would be moaning to their mum that they hadn’t cantered and jumped . I’d get some private lessons .

We had this over the years as well - that lessons were "boring" and all about riding into corners and very little cantering. But I think it does teach good foundations. Now as teenagers, the kids are all really confident riders and do really well in competitions.

Thanks all, so it seems it could be the instructor is keeping to the 'fun stuff' to please the kids and therefore the parents...I tend to agree, and think this is making me feel not much confidence in the teaching/approach. Perhaps that's my problem - I'm not feeling too confident about the school.

The only issue with extra/private lessons is the cost.😕So I'm wondering if switching to another school that has a more comprehensive approach would mean we'd cover all bases for the same cost rather than adding in extra.

Is so tricky, it's like hairdresser's, you don't want to burn your bridges with one to try out another 😂

I recommend finding a riding school that is a Pony Club Centre because then your daughter will have to cover the basics of both riding and stable management as part of the syllabus. Jumping is only part of the syllabus at Silver 1 level and above, which is after the D test. Plus, it's a great way to make friends. My daughter met her best friend at Pony Club. It's also more cost-effective than private lessons (which you can always add on if you wanted). You can find your closest Pony Club Centre on the Pony Club website.

Does the school publish their class/group syllabus on their website? Most of the ones round here do, and it gives an idea of what they should be doing at each level. DD's riding school don't start jumping at all until level 3 (of 5), and they usually spend a long time in level 3 because they sort of plateau on the other non-jumping things in that level, like confidently cantering a circle, cantering past the ride or out of the ride to do something. Levels 4 and 5 then introduce lateral work and yes they do more jumping as well.

Perhaps it's worth asking if they have a guide to what they should be doing at each level?

As an aside, I am good friends with the woman who runs DD's riding school, and she does say there is immense pressure these days, more than ever before, to make sure kids have 'fun' at every lesson, which can make really drilling some more 'boring' but important skills a bit difficult, and also pressure from parents to 'show progress' and move kids up the levels as quickly as possible, despite them only being able to demonstrate some of the skills on the most obedient and willing of ponies. I don't think my parents ever really paid any attention to what I was doing in my riding lessons, they just got told what time to take me. It seems like it's very different now. I'm not trying to excuse bad lessons, but just sort of add the context...combine that with the absolute terror of risk/safety related matters these days, and I would imagine some schools find it very hard to balance what they think kids should be doing versus what the kids or parents themselves think.

Oddly, at DD's riding school, I see a lot more serious flatwork happening now she's in the higher level classes, because they are older kids and are more mentally and physically capable of doing some of the more nuanced and challenging things. Not to excuse them not doing enough at lower levels...it seems upside down from when I learnt!

I would agree with PPs though...have a chat and see what their thoughts are, before considering a move.

That sounds really useful Delia, I haven't come across a school publishing curriculum info that detailed aside from the ones around the groups specifically prepping for PC tests or BHS exams but it certainly sounds like one way around the 'but dressage is booorrrrring who wants to do circles, I just want to jump/gallop around' complaints (which I agree come from kids and parents equally, particularly frustrating for schools when non horsey parents want to see their kids progress/take their PC badges/go to competitions/jump 6ft and for it to happen yesterday but where they don't see the need to have the foundations nailed and aren't prepared to back up the teacher to spend time on the basics, very annoying!).

Totally agree too on the risk culture being a bit of a problem for schools, I've seen a few parents push really hard for their kid to be in a more advanced group or ride a more challenging or forward going pony than they are ready for, only to blame the school/teacher when the inevitable happens and it all ends in tears... doesn't sound like this is you OP though, you sound very sensible! I think Xela's suggestion of looking for a PC centre (one where they offer PC for children without their own ponies) is an excellent one, this both gives you an 'excuse' for moving her partially away from the current school without having to get into conflict about it and also will hopefully motivate her, she won't be able to get all her badges or do very well in mounted games or get onto teams etc if she doesn't work on her flatwork, probably they won't let her jump at all if she can't canter a 20m circle, but this should be very easily remediable with a few private lessons if she tries hard...

I’ve been reading the replies with interest as I started private lessons last year. I’ve been doing lots of groundwork i.e circles serpentines and trotting. At what stage would should you be moving onto cantering and maybe a bit of pole work . We seem to do the same thing each lesson and it’s getting a bit boring. I really like the instructor but not sure the lessons are moving forward . Do I need to ask when other training will be added ?

@Lovelycupofcoffee come and join the adult returner riders thread 😊. Concentrating on flat work basics is good but if you’re getting bored (and if you’ve been having private lessons for a year I’d expect you to be cantering by now) why don’t you ask your instructor to help you set some goals - eg learning how to canter/learning a dressage test/getting skills to help you out hacking/pole work etc. Get her to break down the elements of each new skill into manageable chunks and then it won’t seem so daunting

Thank you for the feedback , I can’t seem to find the thread mentioned. I did start learning a dressage test but this has stopped and we have now gone back to circles/serpentines and basic trot work. It’s just a bit boring and I think I do need to mention or ask for other things to learn . I love the instructor and my confidence has now improved but I don’t really feel im moving forward.

@Lovelycupofcoffee does this work? www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_tack_room/4586250-adult-new-or-returning-riders-up-for-a-chat

Yes it does thank you