Buy pony or not?

[MrPickles73]

Unfortunately several riding schools around us closed during lockdown and now the one we are at is selling off its ponies and turning into a livery stable.
Our children have had a fantastic time there and it's bad news for us all round.
The stables are selling off the ponies. DD2 is 9 and particularly fond of a pony who is for sale for £6k. 6 yrs old. Welsh. DD2 is small for their age but should grow at some stage. This pony is 12HH and the other one she rides is 10HH.
The benefit of buying it from the riding stable is that we've seen its temperament etc. It's quite go-ey but DD2 likes that and I think they could have alot of fun together.
So we could buy the pony and keep it as livery at the stables.
Other than the livery cost (some £200 permonth). What other costs should I factor in? Small bales of hay are £3 here.
How long might the 12HH pony last her? She's currently 130cm so quite dinky. 3 years?
How much should I allow annually for insurance, teeth, shoes etc?
Is £6k a fair price for a 12HH 6 yr old pony?

Lastqueenofscotland my pony club pro chum advises asking for a trial period so I have messaged the seller to ask.. The pony is now for sale at nearer to £2k..

Atleast the other pony (though £6k!!) we have seen it over a period of time so we know how it is kept and how it behaves etc. If its advertised at £6k are they hoping for £4k or that's not how it works?

Offer 3 or 3.5 to start it is steep - always offer subject to a proper vetting etc never shake etc

IAMGE thanks for the advice. I know someone else bought a pony off them which was advertised at £11k and paid £8k. So I'm figuring there is wriggle room..

My plan is to see the £2k pony first under the supervision of my pony pro friend and then if that doesn't work out to see if I want to haggle over the £6k pony. But as you say with a vet check first (and a trial period?).

Re sharing, I've been on both sides of the equation (owner and sharer) and it's largely been great, it does require good trust, cooperation and really good communication on both sides (and expectation management of the DC involved as well if it's a child's pony), and of course like with most things in life, when things are good, pony is healthy and riders enjoying themselves, everything is easy, it's when shit hits the fan things can turn ugly. Like others I would say a true 50:50 joint ownership is unlikely to work, one person IMO needs to be lead owner who takes on the upfront purchase costs and responsibility, makes all the major decisions like where the pony lives, any vet treatment required etc, and in exchange gets first dibs on riding esp for competitions or pony club days or whatever. The other party/the sharer can make a substantial contribution to keep costs and/or jobs in exchange for 50% or near 50% use of the pony, but like I say if something goes seriously awry such as the pony is sick or lame, or develops serious behavioural issues or there's a big yard fallout, the owner needs to deal with that and the other party should have the right to walk away - I can see a nightmare developing if for instance joint owners had totally opposing views on expensive/risky vet treatment Vs PTS or similar which sadly can arise with horses. Or for a child's pony, what if one child outgrows the pony physically or wants to move on to something more high powered before the other, all sorts of issues can arise. I don't know if you see yourself as more the owner or the sharer (personally as first timers I'd recommend being the sharer) but as there's another child interested worth at least sounding out the other parents maybe?

Also I'd say the £200 pcm livery with a school and everything included sounds wonderfully cheap, having help or jobs covered is brilliant in winter. Only thing I'd worry about is on a private yard would there be other kids around for her to ride with and can your friend help your dd with her riding, it's not always much fun for kids to ride alone esp in the cold and dark and especially if they're more used to lessons and being 'taught' rather than having to make their own decisions?

Sounds like a plan, £6k is certainly on the ambitious side so there should be room to haggle. Re the trial period, fine to ask but the owner may say no, I would in their position purely because I wouldn't trust someone I didn't know to bring the pony back into work responsibly and would worry they'd be hammering the pony round courses of fences or fast hacks or similar to gauge suitability (nothing personal to you op, I'm just very untrusting!). And from your point of view, unless they'll agree to a long trial, how much will you really learn about the pony from a couple of weeks of steady slow fittening work, if pony has been injured or had behavioural issues they may not resurface until pony is fit and back in full work? Personally I would always, always advise first time owners to only buy a horse which is already successfully doing the job you want them for, ie is a child's pony for a child of similar age and ability to your DD. Avoid anything young, green, needs to be brought back into work, is in a riding school or doing a higher level competition job and 'ready to step down', yes of course all these animals have the potential to be brilliant child's ponies but it's an extra risk and hassle and tbh as first time owners yog have enough to get used to and learn without adding more to your plate. But then I serially fall in love with and buy unsuitable horses so I'm giving hypocritical advice really!

maxelly you have hit the nail on the head. They currently pony share at a stables and love it but the riding school is closing and becoming a livery stable. We have thought of having ponies at home but I fear without chums to ride with the children would lose interest and we would be forever driving ponies to other people's houses which is tedious. Ideally we would like to continue how we are..
So the alternative is to loan/buy and remain at the stables but with livery. So there will be people around they know but we will have to spend more time supervising them. But it does mean on days that they are at school etc we wont have to go to the stables. I work Full Time so am time poor. We could try them at home and then we can look after them ourselves but I feel we need some guidance on if they are ill etc. and the children would have more fun with other people to ride with. I can book them a lesson a week and they can hack with teenagers they know at the stables.
Our chums yard in the winter has a menage and she already has a pony and girl there so they would have a chum to ride with and another family up the road with ponies. The chum is also a good teacher ;-).

I don’t think it’s realistic to say that one daughter gets a pony to herself and the other has to share one , it is reasonable to just buy one for yours to share if you can find something suitable that way you could have perhaps the first year of ownership with 1 pony to see how you get on .

Floralnomad this is a good point and a single pony would be cheaper and easier to manage all round but then obviously they would not be able to ride with one another? And what size to buy? The 9 y.o. is v small so only 1.3m and looks fine on 10-12HH but much bigger than that and I fear he will be over ponied. The 12 y.o. usually rides a 12HH which is too small for her (but she likes it!) and she also rides a 14.1HH and a 15.1HH.
If I went for 13.2HH it would be a bit big for the little one?

A 13.2 should be fine if she’s competent , it also gives you growing room for her and then if you want another next year you can get a bigger one for the older one and the younger one will then grow into that IYSWIM . Seems like a sensible solution to me .

If I'm completely honest, the type of questions you are asking do not lead me to think you are ready for pony ownership. I'd try and find a new riding school, even id you have to travel further. Do this for another year or so and then see how you feel.

nopenotplaying I think that's a bit harsh. I'm a realist rather than a fantasist and also a numbers nerd so like to dig into things in detail rather than go in things with my eyes closed..
I did a fair bit of riding as a child, helping out in the holidays at the riding stables, pony camp etc. And we have lots of friends with several ponies (two friends with more than 30 stables each) so we are well supported. The children, though only riding for two years or so, go two days a week in term time and three days a week in the holidays (8hrs a day,including riding for 2-3 hrs) in the pissing rain etc.
I'm just over cautious and like to know what I'm getting into and ask lots of questions what other people's setups are...

It does read badly, sorry not my intention. There's a well known saying in horses...a little bit of knowledge is dangerous. Just because you spent time with horses as a child yourself that does not mean you will have the experience to support your own children. A 6 year old pony will need schooling and handling well or you could quickly become in a pickle. The behaviour issues start and your children will become despondent with their hobby. It's always the pony that gets the blame. I'd suggest you look for something older and more established. Owning a pony is not just about having the money, this is important of course, but it's the experience that makes a difference. It's good to hear that you have some good friends. Your children will need support to work the pony, without a structure of a lesson they will lose their way quickly. Also beware the yard politics! Livery yards are notoriously bad for this. Everyone keen for you to do it but the novelty soon wanes. Good luck

We took the leap last year and got DD her first pony at 10. It has been the making of her. We have a 13hh Welsh C who was not quite 6 when we got her, so we didn't follow all of the wise advice we had from lovely people here and elsewhere, but it has worked out brilliantly for us. It has brought DD's riding on tremendously and they have a brilliant partnership, if still a little scrappy at times!

What I would say is the younger ponies need not just a competent rider, but a fairly mature head on their rider....DD at 10 has struggled a little sometimes with how to feel about and react to feisty young pony's behavioural quirks and 'learning curve'. She's now 11 and does better with it, but early on, she would get upset and frustrated at pony not getting something perfectly first time, and we had to have a lot of discussion about DD's job as a teacher for the pony, as well as just riding for fun. She now takes it really seriously and does a fab job....a couple of years ago she just wasn't ready for that responsibility and would have only thrived with an easier pony life, as it were.

We haven't once looked back or regretted our decision though. It can work out with a younger forward pony, but you do have to go into it with your eyes open. We too are well supported at our yard, and I have ridden all my life and loaned on and off, but this was still a bit of a leap for us, we were just incredibly lucky that it paid off. On the flip side, there is a 9 yr old girl at our yard who was bought a pony a couple of months ago and barely rides it (her non-horsey parents still pay for her to have lessons on a riding school pony) because it is just too much for her. It is so sad to see.

As a final thought..., £6k is a LOT for a 12hh Welshie that's a young project pony! We paid just under half that, for more or less the same, although she's a bit bigger at 13hh, just under a year ago (so was already lockdown type price era).

We bought an 11-year-old all-rounder PC-type 14.2hh cob for my daughter and she does everything on her, but I actually know someone who bought a 5-year-old horse with excellent bloodlines for their 12-year-old as a first pony. There were many falls in the beginning, but 8 months on and they are a superb partnership and just won a show jumping show and placed in every other they attempted (jumping 1 metre). I also know another 12-year-old with a 6-year-old pony and again (after a period of falls) it's working out really well. It sometimes can work out even if a pony is young.

It can work out I agree with a younger pony but need to have the experience to manage them. You don’t need anyone on mumsnet’s approval to get the pony but one thing I would be clear about is expectations of how much friends etc will be able to help. In my experience horsey people are stretched and horses are really hard to fit in and most people don’t have time for extra responsibilities. They may be happy to offer advice but adhoc assistance can be a lot to ask at busy times. I am now clear that I don’t expect anyone to take responsibility for my horses and I can’t take responsibility for anyone else’s, even with a newborn/ pregnant I set up field arrangements I could cope with, prearranged mutual assistance with people has worked but I have also had bad experiences when fellow liveries try to make it my issue that they don’t like driving in the dark/ have a family Sunday lunch. Be clear about what you would expect of the friends and make sure they are ok with that. I remember someone telling me that although the yard was closing they knew plenty of people with land so should be ok. I thought that just because they were friends does not mean they will put up your horses, I also knew people like that but had no expectations of them. I think it is because that person was a fully livery at the time and didn’t realise what they were expecting. Horses are a massive responsibility and need to be factored into everything or put on livery. After having people at DIY attempt to get me to do their horses whilst also managing a young family/ work and other animals because I have to be there anyway was one of the most annoying things about livery yards. Although with some of my fellow liveries the mutual support offered has created lifetime friendship this is only when it was mutual

deliaskis thanks for your comment re price which echoes what I felt.
I've found a similar pony for sale near us for about £2k.
Although as we'd be liverying the pony at the place where we'd bought it I think they would be keen to keep an eye on it. The children would continue to have lessons there too.
Horsey friend of mine said today that asking prices are still at the peak of 1 yr ago and another pointed out with a recession on the way there should be plenty of ponies for sale in 6 maths time..

I have been watching a pony 14hh listed on line for £5k is already 10 days later discounted to £4.5k so I'm sitting tight for now..

One of my chums is an ex professional eventer and she said buying ponies is a nightmare and the other is an ex bloodstock agent and she's had two misses since I've known her in the last 18 mths..

6 maths = 6 months

Re ongoing costs, ours are more or less what you describe, we pay a bit more for assisted livery, but our pony doesn't have any hard feed at all. No shoes, easy to do etc. What you haven't factored in is a huge part of our costs which is 'activities'. This can include show entries, arena hire, trips out to farm rides etc. and all the associated costs (burgers and bacon butties from vans at shows, etc.!) DD does a LOT of this kind of thing and this is probably one of our biggest 'not quite planned for' cost. Obvs you can say no to these as you go along etc. but sometimes you get wrapped up in things, DD has ended up doing far more competing than we would have ever imagined simply because he and the pony appear to love it and do very well at it, which we didn't expect!

Also despite tack and equipment seeming to be a one off set up cost, it really isn't. Rugs rip, saddles need adjusting and refitting when pony or child change shape or size, a different bit or martingale might be tried, you'll need more pairs of jods/tights than you would ever think! These are not all big things, but there is an ongoing stream of deliveries of various pony things here. I guess this comes under your incidentals, but it might be more than you think! Some of it is just stuff that makes life easier, e.g. a cheap 'spare' turnout rug for mid winter when a soaked one Just Won't Dry, etc.

Re ongoing costs, ours are more or less what you describe, we pay a bit more for assisted livery, but our pony doesn't have any hard feed at all. No shoes, easy to do etc. What you haven't factored in is a huge part of our costs which is 'activities'. This can include show entries, arena hire, trips out to farm rides etc. and all the associated costs (burgers and bacon butties from vans at shows, etc.!) DD does a LOT of this kind of thing and this is probably one of our biggest 'not quite planned for' cost. Obvs you can say no to these as you go along etc. but sometimes you get wrapped up in things, DD has ended up doing far more competing than we would have ever imagined simply because he and the pony appear to love it and do very well at it, which we didn't expect!

Also despite tack and equipment seeming to be a one off set up cost, it really isn't. Rugs rip, saddles need adjusting and refitting when pony or child change shape or size, a different bit or martingale might be tried, you'll need more pairs of jods/tights than you would ever think! These are not all big things, but there is an ongoing stream of deliveries of various pony things here. I guess this comes under your incidentals, but it might be more than you think! Some of it is just stuff that makes life easier, e.g. a cheap 'spare' turnout rug for mid winter when a soaked one Just Won't Dry, etc.

Oh dear, I fell foul of the server issue and double posted, sorry!