To geld or not to geld?

[CrumpetStrumpet]

I bought a beautiful Dale's pony colt in December. He will be a year old in June.

My issue is that there are absolutely no yards anywhere near me that take colts. Therefore he is currently on livery at a yard miles away from my house. I don't currently drive either, meaning that I'm lucky to see him once a week He's with a small group of similar aged colts and well looked after by YO. However it's obviously a far from ideal situation.

There are two yards within five mins walk of my house but niether will (understandably) take him until gelded.

Should I have him gelded as a yearling? I really wanted to wait until he was two. I feel he needs time to fill out first as he is still very babyish. It feels wrong to geld him so young, although I know a lot of people do it. Please talk some sense into me people:)

Geld! Every time! Have had too much experience of late cut colts. Without exception they have all been easier to handle and manage once cut. The earlier the better. Even our most well behaved stallions went through phases of being really tricky as youngsters and if they weren't very valuable breeding lines wise I would have gelded them.
Any growth/ physical benefits are in my opinion outweighed by the benefits of ease of handling. Fwiw I don't think any of our geldings have suffered physically from being cut young. The operation is also much less risky the younger they are done.

@Dobbysgotthesocks He's not remotely Coltish as yet. I gelded my last colt at 2 and a half and he was no problem to handle.

It's literally just a practicality thing so I can move him nearer. I'd very happily leave him otherwise. Do you believe it does have growth/physical benefits or do you think that's an old wives tale.

In an ideal world I wouldn't geld him at all. He has very good bloodlines and obviously Dale's are an endangered breed now. It's just not possible for me to keep him entire.

It’s tricky. Colts are one thing but once they are grown up they can’t live out together. you say he has good bloodlines, but is he actually quality enough to want to breed from, just being a certain breed isn’t a good enough reason to stand at stud. It’s also an absolute faff and not that lucrative as LFSN or NFNF are very standard terms so you’ll not get paid out in stud fees for the best part of a year ans then maybe not ever.
Do you have the facilities/knowledge to keep a breeding stallion?
Keeping entire to get them to grow up is a bit of an old wives tale in my experience. Different horses look weedy at different stages.

For goodness sake geld him unless you are planning on setting up a stud farm! Which you certainly aren’t if you are looking for somewhere convenient for livery. IME late gelded horses are generally more likely to be knobs than ones gelded at the age most responsible owners get them gelded at. So if you want a late-gelded rare breed knob no one wants at their livery yard, fill your boots. If you want a normal horse you can keep somewhere get him gelded.

@CrumpetStrumpet in my experience there is no physical benefit to gelding a horse at 2 or 3 over a yearling. Growth rates are fairly consistent till around 3 gelded or not. Between 3 and 6 in my experience the geldings tend to grow slightly taller and slightly leaner where as the stallions tend to be shorter and thicken up in the shoulders, neck and bum.

But there are huge advantages to gelding young. Lower risk surgery. Lower testosterone levels - which often never go down fully if left beyond 3/4.
Unless the horse was exceptional and had much wanted bloodlines there is no way I would wait to geld them. They are happier, healthier and better all round for being gelded young.
There would also be huge advantages for you to have him closer to you which will be far better for your bond in the long run.

We keep a bachelor herd of stallions and geldings and they are wonderful but hard work and you always have to have your wits about you when dealing with them. I wouldn't recommend it unless you are absolutely sure it is what you want.

@Lastqueenofscotland I have no intention of keeping him entire. It's not even a consideration as I don't have the facilities to do so. I'm just unsure about gelding a yearling. Some people say it's an old wives tale regarding growth whilst others swear by it. I gelded my last colt as a two year old, so I've no experience of gelding early.
Having said that my friend gelded her colt at 9 months and he ended up over Height!

@backinthebox Not sure what the aggressive tone is for. I'm only asking for advice. Obviously if he was becoming an aggressive knob I'd have him gelded ASAP. So far he is very sweet and chilled out.

@Dobbysgotthesocks Thank you very much for your advice :) Really interesting to hear your perspective. In an ideal world I probably would leave him a little longer but we don't live in an ideal world🙈 I do want him moved closer to me so we can bond more. The vet is coming out next week for an unrelated issue so I'll speak to them about it. They last came out two months ago and they said his balls weren't dropped enough yet anyway. Thank you again :)

Mine was done at about 9 months, no problem with growth etc, and just so much easier. He was pretty well behaved, but there are lots of mares around here, including his mum.
There's a gelding on the common where we live, he was cut as a 3 y/o and he's an absolute menage. He's tried to mount my daughter's mare while she was riding her more than once, tried to herd her, and any geldings on the common he will run absolutely ragged. He's really riggy, and very worrying. I have known late-cut geldings who are fine (I worked in racing, many not cut until they're shown not to be talented enough to keep entire), and I'd say 75% were more difficult than geldings cut at 6-18 months. Mostly biting and dominant behaviour.

@CrumpetStrumpet definitely talk to your vet. If he hadn't descended two months ago then he may well not be ready yet.
For context we have not long ago had 5 colts gelded. 2 were 10.5 months, 2 were 22 months and the 5th was rising 3. We had 4 10.5 month olds looked at but 2 hadn't dropped. So they will be looked at in the autumn.
The 3 year old still had one retained so that was a much more complicated op and wouldn't be something we would consider for a younger colt. The two 2 year olds were not ready last year nor in the autumn.

So basically my advice is do it as soon as both have dropped!

The other thing to bear in mind is flies! We try to geld before the flies appear each year. So generally we do them in March. But we never geld over the summer months when the risks from flies bringing infection into the wounds is for me to high.
All of our young stock live out full time and get turned back out within hours of being gelded so it's really important to pick the right time.

I'd geld - I have been told by vets that the impact on growth is an old wive's tale. I had my pony gelded the second his balls dropped, at around 8/9 months - it was done as a standing castration under local anaesthetic, minimal bleeding and swelling and as it was still winter and very cold there were no flies to worry about. Within days you wouldn't know anything had been done.

The problem you might now have, unless you crack on, is that we are coming into warmer weather/fly season - there are already midges around on warmer days. Depending on where you are and what the weather conditions are, you might be better waiting now until later in the year.

Oh if you’re not keeping him entire just geld now!

Geld him, asap to dodge flies.

Ime geldings grow taller, whereas colts tend to be as neck and bulk. But you can bulk lanky up with muscle once in work. Late cut geldings can be an absolute pita, all angst and anger, know what mares are about and a bit 'handsy' whereas a gelding cut as soon as possible tend to be a bit thick about the girls which is perfect for a useful working animal. And that's without weighing up the increased health risk of gelding later, plus the literal ballache of managing a colt on livery.

I own a late cut (3) gelding. He is the sweetest (if slightly dramatic) boy with me and mine, but very quirky with other people. Am sure it's to do with being cut late. He's quite colty with other horses as well. Not so much pestering mares, but very defensive about his little herd.

Why the aggressive tone? Not aggressive, but exasperated with people who are asking daft questions. I’ve owned a late cut gelding myself (gelded at 11 after a successful stud career) he was the nicest pony ever but we could never have a mare here (because he would have got into bother with the other horses over a mare and he was only little,) and would have to ask for him to be kept away from mares at Pony Club, not because he got silly, but he clearly gave off some sort of air that meant the mares got silly around him. We bought him as a gelding and only found out he had just been gelded when we had him vetted for purchase. I would buy him again in a heartbeat, but likewise would have had him gelded if I’d had him as a youngster.

The only reason for keeping a colt entire is if you intend to breed, and the average horse owner is not in a position to keep a breeding stallion, especially if they do not have their own premises. By trying to keep him at livery you are going to run into problems - no one wants a colt on a livery yard and I’m surprised you even need to question this.

I would also say you don’t know much about the Dales breed if you think he needs the extra help to bulk up, most of the Dales geldings I know are built like tanks anyway.

To be fair, the OP is not asking whether to geld at all, she's asking whether to geld as a yearling or a 2yo (thread title misleading in this regard) - I've never thought of gelding at 2 as particularly 'late' in a way that could cause long-term behavioural issues as it would if they were cut at 3 or 4. And the thinking with dogs is increasingly to neuter later than was previously recommended and that this can actually prevent rather than cause behavioural issues so I can see how the question/thought has arisen and I don't think it's a silly one, but dogs and horses are different in their hormone mix/associated behaviours, and as far as I know there's no evidence gelding young causes any growth or other problems, and in your case I think the benefits of getting it done sooner rather than later will more than outweigh any risks...

Ime he'll grow a bit taller if gelded young because the energy that would go into sexual development goes into growing instead.

I have 4 dales ponies . If you gonna geld get done before fly season. He won’t need the time to bulk out if he’s like any of mine . They are slow maturers anyway so geld and turn away depending on obviously what you want to do with him .

Geld! Unless it's got the dog's bollocks of bloodlines, it's not any use for breeding anyway and it's hard to find yards to take stallions.

@backinthebox I'm not questioning if a livery would keep a colt. I'm not actually saying I want to keep him entire at all. I'm discussing the best time to geld him. You're the one who isn't reading my posts correctly!

Niether have I said anywhere that I think a horse needs to stay entire to 'bulk up' I'm well aware most Dale's geldings are built like tanks. I'm merely asking if gelding as a yearling could potentially affect this. I gelded my colt before at two and a half, so he was considerably older. You are the one who isn't reading my posts correctly and giving rude responses. My question itself is perfectly reasonable. There are a lot of different opinions out there regarding early gelding and growth rates!

@fiowen45 Four Dales ponies? I'm so jealous. You're so lucky.

I just had my home bred cut this week at 11 months . I keep them at home but have mares and it is much easier to be able to put him out with others without him trying to climb in them.
I was saying to vet I was worried he was going to be taller than I personally wanted and she said oh well he will grow even more now 🤣 yay !
Would def do it , my friends dales was a menace at 2/3 and so much nicer after he was cut.

Definitely geld. You’re not set up to own, grade, breed, and compete a stallion.
Very few people are.

All the people I know who kept entire ended up having difficult livery arrangements just like yours, or managed to keep them on same yard as their others but were stabled 24/7, increasingly difficult to handle, and more and more staff wouldn’t deal with them so owner had to do everything themselves.
Most ended up gelded late but continued with the same issues.