Bit assistance for a pony please

[CheshireDing]

DS has a 13hh pony, she is amazing but we were told she is a bit strong by the previous owners - she came to us in a Pelham. She definitely listens and is well aware of aids and signals. My concerns are:-

a. I think the bit she came in is slightly too long, so do I just go for the next size down initially and stick with the Pelham

b. Because DS is only 8 (and current bridle she came with) just has 1 set of reins so it's not really using Pelham in the full way it should be anyway!

c. Do I just try a Snaffle and see if DS stays on

d. other bits I have looked at :-

Neue Schule Tranz Angled Pony Eggbutt
Cherry Roller (really not sure about this one)
Butterfly Pelham
Neue Schule Performance Pony Butterfly Pelham

I only ever needed to use a Snaffle on my own horses so I don't feel like I know a huge amount about other bits. I cannot find any bit person in our area at all, been trying for weeks. I have someone coming out to look at her saddle but to find a bit/bridle person is seeming impossible !

Any thoughts are appreciated before I spend a fortune on a million bit combos

Is she strong from leaning on the bit ? Could try a Waterford snaffle so she can’t grab the bit.or a grackle nose and to stop her from crossing her jaw . Pelham bit has poll pressure so proberly if only using 1 rein won’t be doing a lot anyway. When riding her get doing lots of transitions walk to halt, trot to halt get her listening to you .

If a Pelham works well then a Kimblewick might be a good option, depending on which mouthpiece your Pelham has, a low port on a Kimble wick will give a bit of tongue room as ponies often have thick tongues and short mouths with little room. You could try a simple snaffle for schooling and see how your ds gets on. Worth checking teeth too.

Thank you both.

I don't think she is leaning on the bit. She is very aware and very sensitive to aids, I think she can just be a bit whizzy and keen. The pair of them absolutely do not have to fight one another and I don't want to end up like that. I would rather use the Pelham and her be listening then use a softer bit and DS have to use more strength.I am just concerned about whether the Pelham is actually the right one for her.

They have been practising lots of transitions too recently so that's good to hear from someone else too fiowen

She is currently in a Mullen Mouth Sticky, the fact that is has no bend in it was bothering me too.

She does have a short mouth and thick tongue too actually !

A stainless steel Mullen mouthpiece is a good option for thick short mouths, the thicker vulcanite and rubber not so much as they are often too thick. I've had large breed natives that often go well in a pelham/kimblewick.

Just to add that Waterford can stop leaning, but I wouldn't want one on a child's pony.

Why don’t you get s bit specialist to assess? We got Caroline Stewart, she covers NE of England, Scotland and Ireland.. if she doesn’t cover your area I’m sure there will be similar folk who do., our boy was really tricky and he’s going great now 😊

If you want to try the snaffle route then a large ring wilkie might be worth considering.

My mare goes well in a Pelham with 2 reins but obviously this would be tricky for an 8 year old. If you want something similar a kimblewick is basically a Pelham with roundings. Some have slots in the cheeks so you can pick a slightly stronger setting if necessary. If I used a snaffle I had a Cambridge mouth. Shires do a sweet iron one with large rings that looks good. The other that she goes well in is a hanging cheek french link. I stick mostly with the Pelham tbh as she has a tendency to be strong and I find I have to fight with her too much in a snaffle unless we have been pretty intensive with schooling and even then she has her moments. You can try a snaffle and see how you go but that might depend on your DS and confidence if it goes a bit wrong.

@HappyGirlNow

Why don’t you get s bit specialist to assess? We got Caroline Stewart, she covers NE of England, Scotland and Ireland.. if she doesn’t cover your area I’m sure there will be similar folk who do., our boy was really tricky and he’s going great now 😊

In the 2nd to last paragraph of the OP it says she's been trying for ages to get a bit expert out to them to no avail, it isn't possible everywhere in the country...

OP, it's hard to advise without having eyes on the pony and the child, have you got an instructor and what do they think? If not I would highly advise getting a second pair of experienced eyes on them as a combo as otherwise any advice can be counter-productive. I know you say she's more fizzy than truly strong but what form does her fizziness take/what physically is she doing? If for instance she's a head between the knees and lean on the riders hands type then you def don't want anything that puts more pressure on the poll as it will only encourage her more but a waterford type action may work well. Whereas if she's a head in the air to evade contact sort something like a pelham may help. You may also want to look at what other gear you use, people tend to stick all manner of fancy nosebands and such onto any 'strong horse' by default but they're only really useful fitted correctly and in the right circumstances e.g. a martingale (loosely fitted, not strapping the head down) can help with stargazing but does nothing to help mouth opening, a flash or grackle can help with that but won't stop leaning on the hands.

Of course nothing is a substitute for proper training and good riding, as you are currently doing lots of quiet, calm schooling incorporating lots of changes of directions and transitions will help, does your DS properly understand the concept of using a half halt and his seat to ask for slower? He may find it easier to practice using changes within a pace (so slow steady trot, then back to working, then faster bigger trot, then back to working and so on). It's a hard one for a lot of riders to grasp because if you are going faster than you want to then your instinct is to use the reins like a brake on a car by pulling, and to keeping pulling harder until the horse stops. Whereas this tends to only teach the pony to ignore rein aids especially with a strong bit in, you need to use pressure then release, and repeat until you get the desired reaction (ideally using your seat as well) rather than clinging on for dear life to their mouth, but it's hard to do that in the heat of a moment esp if the pony is 'more' and bigger/sharper than he's used to and maybe making him a bit nervous which is only natural?

If you do want to try a softer bit there's no reason you can't chop and change, try it it a calm environment in the school first (maybe lunge her beforehand to get the worst of the fizz out) but keep the pelham for hacking or jumping or anything she finds particularly exciting? If the pelham has roundings it should be able to be used to effect both actions in any case, or I used to occasionally do a bodge job 'emergency rein' system for the kids (for XC or other v exciting activities) where we'd use a pelham with two sets of reins, knot the curb reins around the neck with some slack in them, ride as normal off the snaffle but grab the curb reins if in need of emergency brakes? 99% of the time it wasn't ever needed but it gave some reassurance to have it there if needed?

Try a Kimblewick, it's a good single rein option

Oops sorry missed that bit 😳

Thank you everyone. I have made a list of the suggested bits too and am going to read up on those as well.

DS has lessons but at a different place from when pony is stabled, he is not nervous at all (pluses and minuses to that !!)

I like the idea of the "emergency 2nd rein", maybe that's an option too.

He has been practising half halts a lot but only really at walk mostly actually, he does trot her and the pair of them were cantering the other day in the arena (which they enjoyed but just gives me kittens) He knows to think about having a £50 note under his bum and to use his legs rather than his reins.

I just need to find the right combination for both of them.