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Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Original poster

Full livery rant

49 replies

Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:38

As the title says. Does anyone have full livery that they are happy with? My gelding is on full livery in the south east, part of a large, wealthy estate and I am frequently turning up to find him with no water or hay.

The land is due to be sold off for housing so possibly they have all given up but it’s basic animal welfare. Plus I get told off for daring to want to store my own shavings there as the beds are so bad.
I can’t move yards, no spaces anywhere.
Really just venting, very wealthy landowners, very poor care. I know they pay the staff badly too but no excuse. Grr.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:39

And I can’t vent on H&H as no name change facility which is rubbish.

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AvocadoAndToast · 05/01/2022 19:44

Well it’s totally unacceptable for your horse to be left without food and water and as you are the owner you are ultimately responsible for his care.
Ranting on anonymous forums isn’t going to help your horse. He would be far better off mentally and physically in a field with a pony as a companion and wouldn’t cost you any more than full livery in the south east.
You are going to have to move when the land is sold off so do it now before your poor horse suffers any more.
You are not meeting your animals basic needs and must step up.

AvocadoAndToast · 05/01/2022 19:46

If he was my horse in the mean time, while I found somewhere else, I would be going down myself twice a day and feeding and mucking out. Is he getting daily turn out?

Gigglebiscuit · 05/01/2022 19:46

I don't personally do full livery, I do DIY, but I know a lady local to me who does fantastic full livery. So there are good yards out there! It's just finding them. I do understand it can be frustrating - yards can be the absolute worst places sometimes. And sometimes you have to travel a bit - I do. It's not the closest yard to my house, but it's the best for us.

Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:49

@AvocadoAndToast

Well it’s totally unacceptable for your horse to be left without food and water and as you are the owner you are ultimately responsible for his care. Ranting on anonymous forums isn’t going to help your horse. He would be far better off mentally and physically in a field with a pony as a companion and wouldn’t cost you any more than full livery in the south east. You are going to have to move when the land is sold off so do it now before your poor horse suffers any more. You are not meeting your animals basic needs and must step up.
I treat it as DIY and never leave him without food or water but I do expect basic needs to be met, especially paying over £600 pcm for livery. The ranting is to help me, not my horse. I just wonder how common it is? Am I being fussy? The land development will take at least five years so it’s not immediate. The land owners are hugely wealthy and it’s not a matter of money. I dream of winning the lottery and getting off livery yards. It definitely would cost me more to buy a house with land in the SE, all £1m plus with land.
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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:49

@AvocadoAndToast

If he was my horse in the mean time, while I found somewhere else, I would be going down myself twice a day and feeding and mucking out. Is he getting daily turn out?
He gets four hours, good facilities there too.
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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:51

@Gigglebiscuit

I don't personally do full livery, I do DIY, but I know a lady local to me who does fantastic full livery. So there are good yards out there! It's just finding them. I do understand it can be frustrating - yards can be the absolute worst places sometimes. And sometimes you have to travel a bit - I do. It's not the closest yard to my house, but it's the best for us.
Previous one was brilliant but very poor turnout. The manager of this one gets very defensive if you raise any issues. Head girl was good but lately turned in to a control freak.

I want good turn out, hay, water and a rug change in west Kent. If anyone knows any decent yards, please pm me.
Thanks for letting me whinge, I know it’s a pointless moan. Just wondered if I am being too fussy I suppose.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:53

I chucked a load of hay in the other stables tonight as none of them had hay. They get a net for over night at 9pm. But this was at 4pm- too long to go without hay IMO.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:53

I post often here- name changed as was giving details of location.

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TheSnowyOwl · 05/01/2022 19:54

You’re not being fussy and even if the land wasn’t being sold, it’s time to move him to somewhere else that’s better.

Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 19:55

@TheSnowyOwl

You’re not being fussy and even if the land wasn’t being sold, it’s time to move him to somewhere else that’s better.
You are right, nothing around though, no spaces. And would it be better? This is not common right? Heard some horror stories from friends.
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TheSnowyOwl · 05/01/2022 19:57

I don’t think it’s common at all.

Are there any places you like the look of that have a waiting list that it might be worth going on?

Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:02

I get put off when I see how some of the yard owners post on social media but I know if I was reading my posts I would find it totally frustrating to read. I might even consider moving somewhere with cheaper land further away. This is only the second yard I have been on and my friends have horror stories from other yards in this area.
I just want a nice, normal yard where the basics are done. I am not fussy about other things.

I doubt myself but it’s not right to leave a horse five hours without hay is it?
I think if they paid the staff more they might be more motivated. It’s a big yard, I think about 40 stables.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:04

@Gigglebiscuit

I don't personally do full livery, I do DIY, but I know a lady local to me who does fantastic full livery. So there are good yards out there! It's just finding them. I do understand it can be frustrating - yards can be the absolute worst places sometimes. And sometimes you have to travel a bit - I do. It's not the closest yard to my house, but it's the best for us.
Giggles you are right, this is the closest to me and maybe I should scrap that being a priority.
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AvocadoAndToast · 05/01/2022 20:06

Well, I’m in the north and it’s not really that normal these days (thankfully) to treat horses like this.
Hay, water and clean bedding is a bare minimum as well as lots of turnout.
Luckily, people in my circles now have increasing understanding that horse are herd animals who need to be turned out as much as possible, ideally 24 hours a day, for good mental and physical health.
Our horses live out on a paddock paradise with tracks and with ad lib hay and grazing.

This may sound shocking to you but so many horses in this country are kept in downright cruel confines and conditions. If I was to keep my dog locked in a cage for 20 hours a day the Rspca would remove them, yet sadly some people keep horses stabled for 20 plus hours a day and it really upsets me, especially when those horses get deprived of hay as well.
I really hope you can make positive changes for your horse, forget about the facilities and the closeness and focus on the care and turnout - he deserves it.

Vapeyvapevape · 05/01/2022 20:11

Would Furneux Pelham be too far for you to travel?

Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:12

@AvocadoAndToast completely agree, it’s individual turnout here too. Honestly if I was reading my posts I would want to slap me.
I think I am going to treat as DIY until I can possibly move somewhere cheaper and get land. Always wanted to take on a rescue too so I could do that.

Thanks for listening and letting me offload.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:13

@Vapeyvapevape

Would Furneux Pelham be too far for you to travel?
Yes, I am in west Kent. This thread has helped me decide a few things though.
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AvocadoAndToast · 05/01/2022 20:15

@Horseyhound well done for taking a step back and taking other opinions on board. Its really positive you are deciding to put your horses welfare first.
I wish you both lots of luck and happiness for the future.

Elieza · 05/01/2022 20:19

Do other owners realise this is happening too? Can you get at least a few together and non confrontationally (if possible!) approach management for some ‘advice’ on what you standard of care you should expect.

At which point you could raise the issues you have concerns about and ask what will be done to resolve the issues.

Do you have free legal advice on your house insurance policy that you could phone up? I’d be inclined to withhold money if I though my horse wasn’t getting enough food. And I’d be inclined to phone a welfare place if horses are being left without water.

Are yards licensed in England? Perhaps the licensing body could be contacted?

Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:23

@Elieza

Do other owners realise this is happening too? Can you get at least a few together and non confrontationally (if possible!) approach management for some ‘advice’ on what you standard of care you should expect.

At which point you could raise the issues you have concerns about and ask what will be done to resolve the issues.

Do you have free legal advice on your house insurance policy that you could phone up? I’d be inclined to withhold money if I though my horse wasn’t getting enough food. And I’d be inclined to phone a welfare place if horses are being left without water.

Are yards licensed in England? Perhaps the licensing body could be contacted?

Yes but we are too scared about getting kicked off, there is a real shortage of livery around here. I have raised this before and nothing seems to change, I was made to feel as if I was being fussy. Told that he must have only just finished etc.

I suppose I was doubting my own judgement- was I being fussy? But I don’t ever want him to be without hay, don’t want the bill for ulcers for a start.

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:23

It’s shit hay too

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Original poster
Horseyhound · 05/01/2022 20:25

The owners are very powerful, wealthy landowners, I know I wouldn’t get anywhere. I am going to bide my time, treat as DIY and try to buy my own land but not in this area.
It’s annoying though as I can’t even go away despite paying for full livery.

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PaperDoves · 05/01/2022 20:27

That's awful. I don't know your interests, but would you consider a professional competition/training yard? It shouldn't be much more than you're paying now and (in my experience at least) they tend to provide higher standards of care than the full livery yards I've been on. Could just be my personal experience though.

Elieza · 05/01/2022 20:29

If you got ten owners together would they kick you all off? Thats £6k a month. Not to be sniffed at in this economy. Groups have power.