Cartrophen or steroid injections?

[BlueLines81]

I really don’t know what to do for the best, any advice appreciated.

My daughter’s pony is a 14.2hh sports cob. She’s 23 and pretty high mileage as she’s a been there done it pony club pony. We bought her in April, she’s had a great summer, loves jumping (daughter is jumping up to 70cm courses). Then in October she refused a fence at an event, and the same thing happened the next 2 times that we took her out. And she just didn’t look very happy to be jumping, ears back and clearly just not enjoying it.

Her previous owners had her front coffin joints injected with steroids a year or so ago, because she was displaying the same kind of behaviour - not lame but just not very happy. This obviously worked well and the pony carried on competing at BE 90 level until we bought her.

So now I need to do something but I’m not sure what. Obviously at her age there’s a good chance she’s a bit stiff/sore in multiple regions. She’s on danilon at the moment since I saw the vet a couple of weeks ago (vet said to try that to just make sure it is a pain issue), and she’s like a different pony, loving her jumping again and being far whizzier than usual on hacks.

She is a bit pigeon toed which is why her coffins seem to be causing her the most issues. So I don’t know whether to just go for injecting those again as that worked last time, or whether to try catrophen which would treat multiple areas and repair the cartilage to an extent.

I just want her to be as comfortable as possible, everyone seems to have a different opinion about what would be best. Cost wise they would be about the same. Any input appreciated!

Honestly at 23 I’d just be letting him slow down and stop jumping him.

Cartrophen works best as a preventative or for mild joint degeneration
Your horse sounds longterm and moderate arthritis
I'd be reevaluating your expectations of work, and thinking about steroid injections for comfort followed by maintenance cartrophen and a longterm reduction in impact work like jumping.

What I would not be doing is using the steroid injections to reduce pain to a level where you can continue to compete and send unbalanced forces through those already damaged and poorly conformed joints to cause yet more damage. It's unethical and potentially dangerous.

Thanks for the replies. I am conscious of not forcing her to do more than she’s able to, however that said she’s never jumped at home and goes out competing maybe twice a month where she’ll jump a single phase course of 70cm plus a few warm up jumps, so she’s not doing masses of jumping. Otherwise it’s mostly hacking and sometimes a bit of schooling.

My most knowledgeable horsey friend calmed me down when I was having a bit of a meltdown about maybe not making her jump anymore by saying it’s completely normal for veteran horses to need steroid injections and many of them do carry on low level competing. I also said to the vet that I was concerned that maybe she just shouldn’t be jumped anymore and she seemed to dismiss this and said if she went on quite happily after the last time her coffins were done there’s no reason why she won’t again.

We keep her on livery and I wouldn’t be able to keep her long term if she can’t do the job we need her to do, my friend said to look at the balanced picture - she has an amazing life where she wants for nothing, has all year round turn out and goes for lots of lovely hacks through fields and woods, and if the pay off for that is that she has to jump a couple of 70cm courses a month it’s not the end of the world.

But that’s just one opinion I know. I want to do the right thing by the pony.

I think buying a veteran you need to do a job for a long time is a pretty daft decision? Inevitably it will need to retire in a few years, whats the plan then?
I personally wouldn’t be injecting a horse with painkillers to jump when the damage is already done, as a PP mentioned those drug courses are best for prevention, that ship has sailed.

I think you need to be working out what you’re going to do with the pony long term anyway whatever immediate treatment you get now.

We had hock injections and cartrophen for our 11 year old last year but unfortunately three weeks later he was unhappy again and after more investigations we decided to turn him away for several months and it looks unlikely that he’ll come back into work.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable medicating a pony of that age to jump - just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should …

Unfortunately I have far too much experience with this having had the bad luck to have 2 fairly young ponies (much younger than yours!) suffer with arthritic changes linked to poor conformation. Both started a lot like yours in symptoms, not obviously lame but 'off' in performance and demeanor. One had steroid hock injections and pretty much is fully recovered and sound in ongoing heavier work than yours (she's on a preventative maintenance dose of medication) but I'm afraid the other has had pretty much the kitchen sink thrown at her (both hocks injected several times, extensive rehab programmes and all the medication in the vets armory) and although she has occasional sound periods fundamentally she's broken and so is basically retired now and certainly won't ever jump again. In both cases the vets were initially very optimistic, and although my first mare would give you hope that optimism was justified, there are obviously no guarantees and I do feel that at 23 your mare has reached a good age and you need a longer term plan if you "need" a jumping pony. Even if the injections do the job you'll always need to keep a very close eye on her, it's not just the welfare of the pony which is of course paramount but also the safety and enjoyment of your DD, I find once ponies have experienced pain they can become very much unpredictable and even if you think you've sorted the issue 'dirty' stops or whatever can creep in and I would never want to see the rider then forcefully pushing them through it as you just never then know what else is happening physically/mentally...

Don’t worry I’m aware that she won’t go on forever and I do have a long term plan in that my mum is waiting in the wings to have her as a light hack when she’s no longer able to do PC stuff, she has her own stables and land 1.5 hours away from me. Or if she becomes completely unridable she can go and retire there, so that’s sorted.

She’s completely sound (gets low 20s in dressage tests), and is wonderful to hack, she really is the kind of one in a million confidence giving school mistress that is so hard to find. My dd has come on so much since we bought her. I’m aware we’ll probably only get another season out of her, and as I said she’s jumped twice a month max and always on a soft surface.

Medicating a horse to continue competing doesn't sit right with me

Sorry i can't help with your actual question.

Have you had a decent vet assessment with x-rays etc to see exactly what you're looking at? That would be my first thing to do. If it shows 'only' the coffin bone to be the problem, then you can have the 'what to do' think, I don't think you should rely solely on last year's experience to make this year's decision.

A pony in pain is dangerous.

Agree she needs a full orthopaedic assessment to make a full decision but ethically jumping a horse with known arthritic joints is problematic.

It doesn't matter if it's twice a month on a soft surface, you will cause further damage and pain to her joints.

We tend to assume that because horses are working animals we can get them to continue doing what we want, when we want, but the reality is that no 23 year old poorly conformed pony is designed to take those jumping impacts. Arthritis is a degenerative condition, your pony is refusing to jump because she knows it's painful - she's clearly communicating her distress to you. Please listen.

It sounds like the pony has had quite a hard life if it has gone through pony club with various children.
I would be looking to semi retire her, surely she doesn't owe anything to anybody?

Unless things have changed, inter joint steroid injections could only be done twice. Is it worth shelling out for that on such an old pony if you are going to continue hammering over jumps?
Poor pony

I’ve had good results with both, but horse is much younger with fairly early stage degeneration. Arthrimid however is IMO the best stuff to inject and would definitely speak to your vet about this.

On the ethical side, if on a bute a day the pony is happy and enjoying its work I see no issue with this and IME they thrive better with a job if that’s what they’ve been used to, I’d be very careful how much they do though and definitely don’t push it. That’s quite an age to still be jumping. I’d suggest perhaps having both cartrophen and the Arthrimid/steroids but also making a long term plan to get another horse and start winding up how much your pony does and the treatment is used to keep them comfortable in lighter work.

She's an oldie. I wouldn't be jumping her again. Light hacking only now. Horses are so stoic