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The tack room

Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Cruelty/Abuse ?

24 replies

rushandpush · 15/09/2021 15:27

I wondered if any of you would give me your opinion regarding a situation at our livery yard.
We have recently had a woman move to our yard who brought with her her pony and has recently acquired another horse. The woman herself seems pleasant and fairly easy going. However, she uses a trainer/instructor who very regularly uses whip/s with excessive use - has the rider continually whipping the pony while she backs up the riders whip by chasing the pony with a lung whip - possibly making contact or at least not shy of making contact.

The pony is whipped even when being ridden across the yard to the menage. It seems that the pony is virtually desensitised to the use of the whip/depressed and unresponsive.
Last night things escalated when the trainer described a situation whereby she and a man employed tactics to wrestle a pony to the ground, and to teach it a lesson they held it down and sat on its neck and drank a cup of tea to 'teach it a lesson'. This anecdote she found hilarious. Whether or not this would even be possible, I am not sure - she did qualify her statement by saying it was 'only a Section A' !

I have looked into reporting this woman to the RSPCA but at the moment - due to Covid restrictions, they are only taking immediate cruelty/emergency cases where an animal is in immediate danger.

I would be most grateful if anyone had the time to give me their thoughts and opinions on this situation and any possible advice.

Lastly, am I being unreasonable to be horrified by this behaviour ?

OP posts:
StylishMummy · 15/09/2021 15:30

Fucking hell, that's appalling! I'd report to the BHS to see if this a trainer that's registered/known to them, the RSPCA and the yard owner. Anyone who loves horses would be horrified! Is the pony showing any particular behaviours that need such harsh 'correction'?

FluffMagnet · 15/09/2021 15:43

That ... is so very far from normal. I think the yard owner should approach the owner in the first instance - she can ban the instructor from the yard and hopefully open the owner's eyes to what is going on/support her to find a new instructor. The last thing the owner needs is a pile on as she is likely to run (instructor in tow) and simply believe your yard is especially bitchy. Won't help the horses. I'd second trying to find the trainer's qualifying body and having a word with them too, if the RSPCA are doing jack shit.

rushandpush · 15/09/2021 19:22

Thank you both so much for your replies @StylishMummy and FluffMagnet - both have helped enormously.
I think you have both given really good balanced advice. I had not thought of the BHS/qualifying body, I will definitely pursue this route.

I agree not to pile on and alienate as this will just push the problem elsewhere without addressing it. We don't have a yard manager or person in charge as such, hence I was feeling a little helpless. I do feel that confrontation wouldn't work, as this has been attempted to a certain extent.

I do think your advice has been valuable and has given me a route to pursue - many thanks indeed. I will update when I have some progress or update. Thanks again.

OP posts:
rushandpush · 15/09/2021 19:23

@FluffMagnet - thanks so much.

OP posts:
StylishMummy · 16/09/2021 09:17

Please let us know how you get on, it's shocking that there are still trainers who think bullying and abusing the animal is going to make them do as they're told Angry

krustykittens · 16/09/2021 10:46

Yep, abuse, that poor horse. It amazes me what people are trained to accept as normal by some 'professionals', so I agree with not piling on.

CoralBells · 16/09/2021 17:56

She sounds sadistic and the sitting on the neck thing is horrific.

daretodenim · 16/09/2021 18:21

I had a boyfriend once who was involved in horse racing. I had no experience of horses or raging. He used to tell me stories similar to the cup of tea one. I was gobsmacked but according to him it was all very normal. This was 20 years ago.

I hope that this situation gets resolved because it's horrific.

Biddie191 · 17/09/2021 10:21

I hope that you can manage to help the owner to see the light, and ditch the instructor - thankfully instructors like this are now few and far between, but they are still out there xx
RSPCA wouldn't come out anyway, unless it had all gone mad on social media etc. They are rarely helpful in a practical way. BHS are far more useful. Keep us informed x

Brownlongearedbat · 18/09/2021 16:28

Covid restrictions? Don't they know that these no longer exist, so they are just making excuses. Why is it okay for shop workers, delivery drivers, hairdressers etc etc, but 'not safe' for rspca officers, especially when a lot of their work is outside and doesn't need close personal contact? Ridiculous.

WildFlowerBees · 20/09/2021 11:51

Give these people a call, they were brilliant when we reported poorly treated horses.

www.worldhorsewelfare.org

CountryCob · 20/09/2021 22:59

This sounds so upsetting. If the owner herself seems nice maybe she is a bit unexpected/ under the trainers influence too much. Is there another trainer at the yard or one that could be suggested? Maybe the owner could be helped to see that this is not ok/ productive. Poor horse and pony….

CountryCob · 20/09/2021 23:00

Inexperienced I meant. Warning though if the trainer is a bully with horses is likely to try to bully others. Can the yard owner intervene if it is happening on their place?

Astrak · 08/10/2021 23:58

I second the suggestion about contacting WHW. In my experience, RSPCA have a poor outcome in relation to investigating cruelty to horses.
Owners of Arabian horses may remember the infamous case of Rachel Peel.

CountryCob · 09/10/2021 07:41

I have just read up about the Peel case @Astrak, that is terrible

ginandbearit · 08/11/2021 09:00

That woman in the Cottesmore video punching and kicking her horse is , I hope , an abberation...but I doubt it .Hope she gets called out on it .

Astrak · 08/11/2021 10:56

And then there's the "professional" rider at Pau punching her horse when it stopped at a fence . . .
I also remember a professional rider beating his horse in between fence at ?Badminton . . . He was reprimanded. He hasn't been seen to do it again. Not in public, anyway.
Who knows what goes on out of the public eye? Rapping? Hedgehog skins on top poles - both those were common when I was competing.
Recently, there's been uproar in dressage circles to do with a Grand Prix rider using electrified spurs. I believe he's now been banned.
Despicable behavior.
Should such persons arrive in Heaven, I hope they find that the Deity is a very hungry vulture.

XelaM · 09/11/2021 03:21

Has anyone seen this in the news today (albeit in the daily fail)?www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10178857/Huntswoman-caught-camera-kicking-slapping-horse-married-primary-school-teacher.html The video is shocking! She's a primary school teacher and Pony Club leader! Wtf

10yearwarranty · 09/11/2021 08:58

Yes, she's an absolute disgrace, what an example to set to the children she teaches in school and at pony club. The horse did nothing wrong. The person handling it kind of let go of the rope and it wandered off to it's friends. Unfortunately this sort of behaviour is all too common, maybe not always as blatent, but a lot of people go straight into physical punishment. I despair sometimes.

Escapetothecatshome · 27/11/2021 16:53

you have to do something about it, it might not make you popular but its the right thing to do.

PinniGig · 03/01/2022 04:42

There are some really unstable, bizarre people that have this ideas ponies are the devil and need nothing but a harsh, heavy hand CONSTANTLY it's surprising and unnerving.

I used to have a little Sec A who we got as a non-ridden companion as he was said to be too unsafe and dangerous for use as a child's ridden pony.

The lady we got him from thought the world of him but admitted she probably made a mistake in buying him because she felt sorry for him most of all. He'd been whacked, walloped and knocked about something shocking by idiots that had him before her.

The first time she saw him was during a family fun day in a large equestrian centre where a young girl was trotting around in the arena and the pony gave out of a few little kicks along the way. She was only very young and it knocked her confidence, she pulled up and burst into tears. Some bloke who was well known in the centre went over and in an attempt to try and spare her any more tears or embarrassment told her to step aside whilst he taught that naughty pony a lesson and promptly got on him, rode and rode and rode him around the arena to the point of near collapse. He bucked a few times - no doubt because of the weight of a grown ass man over 6ft tall on his back - and each time he did, the guy cracked him and kept forcing him to carry on. She said it was comical the first 20 seconds or so but quickly grew really uncomfortable, awkward and the mood changed totally. A woman clambered over into the arena and made him stop. She was heard through the mic on his headset saying “OK you've made your point and had your fun – get off that pony before you kill him” He was probably embarrassed or trying to make himself look even bigger so started "Oh here we go another one feeling sorry.." and she shut him down and went "GET OFF - NOW"

He got off (had to really from the sounds of it that woman meant business) but as the poor lad was being lead from the arena, he was wobbling and his legs all over the place like cooked spaghetti.

The situation in your case is flat out abusive and cruelty for sure. If you can't or aren't comfortable with saying anything outright and upfront – even if you are really – it wouldn't hurt to install a basic CCTV and catch these nasty bastards in the act and have footage to use for reference but don't share or upload to social media or anywhere.

I'm not a fan of people generally filming their issues and sharing it that way but it will definitely help if you have any footage of this kind of crap so you can let RSPCA or whoever see it and jump to respond quickly.

I don't know why it is that more “experienced” and often qualified instructors and professionals tend to be the worst and have no idea how else to do anything other than to use brute force and abuse. If that's what you need to do every day to address a so called problem pony, it's obviously not working is it?

My old little Sec A had his happy ending though fortunately. I had a feeling he may not have been entirely broken spirited as first thought and wondered if his issue with being ridden was more out of association than anything else (former owner said he would throw riders clean off over his head)

Had my daughter help with just basic groundwork, confidence building and then got her to gradually ease up until sat on him just to see whether his issue with having someone on his back was due to pain or physical discomfort or if it was more a mental association and assumption that having someone sat on him inevitably came with a bad experience.

When she swung her leg over and sat upright he pinned his ears and shifted on his feet like a grumpy old man getting ready to kick the neighbour's cat and I immediately thought “He can be ridden he just needs to reset that switch in his brain”

Sadly my daughter was too big for him to ride regularly but the farmer's daughter is a great lass, experienced rider and actually wanted to help restart him which she did and within a few weeks he was being tacked up and ridden daily without any issue whatsoever.

I was told his habit of bucking and throwing riders was nearly always when asked to move from trot to canter but being so little I couldn't ride him myself to know for sure but farmer's girl was happy to ride him in the arena. We'd already talked and I had briefed her beforehand although I was 99% certain any bucking he might do was not gonna be full blown Buckaroo whizzing her clean over his head so when she first tacked up and rode him in the arena I remember going “OK when you start picking up to a canter he might buck or throw a few kicks but DON'T REACT”

Was pretty sure he was expecting either to get a crack or have her pull him up and jump off so the aim for him to having nothing at all like he was used to.

He threw out a few very small bucks that were about as high and powerful as him lifting his arse end to fart and when it didn't get any real reaction, he tried another and on the third go she just firmly said “Hey – pack it in and stop being daft” and kept him going after which he just pulled his face a bit but that's all. If anything he looked cheesed off that his trick didn't work at all like he hoped Grin

Ended up signing him over to her permanently because I couldn't justify keeping him and just letting him go to waste turned out when he'd been given a second chance and new friend and rider he and I both trusted.

Only learned later he'd gone through no fewer than three different owners all experienced and involved in the world of pony club activities and yet it took a 10yr old girl to help him find a new happiness and enjoy being ridden.

Wallywobbles · 03/01/2022 09:37

I do hope you manage to sort this out. Likewise I'd recommend the video option if you can. Proof is necessary for action.

Neverfightamanwithaperm · 14/01/2022 08:28

This horrible and definitely abuse/cruelty. Good advice from previous posters re contacting BHS, RSPCA and World Horse Welfare just in case they can help. Poof would be the difficult be presumably for the RSCPA so video of you can...
Sounds like the person giving the "lesson" has been watching a bit too much of thar idiotic dog whisperer guy - "alpha rolls" don't do anything for dogs either, never mind horses. How sad.

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