Buying daughter's first pony - help please!

[XelaM]

Hi, I hope someone can offer some advice.

My daughter (12) has been riding for years, is a member of Pony Club (D+/Silver level 1 at the moment). She is very confident and does low-level jumping and dressage competitions (although nothing major).

She volunteers at the yard where she rides and the yard is both close to our house and her school, so she could be there every day (she already is anyway even without her own horse).

She is desperate for her own pony, but I have been speaking to the yard for many months now and they say that the prices have gone up significantly in recent months and that I should budget £8-12K minimum. In any event, even with that budget (which to me sounds huge) they are still struggling to find anything.

We are just looking for a placid happy hacker/Pony Club type of horse. We are in North London, but obviously willing to travel. Does anyone have any recommendations of reputable places to approach and where to go if the yard can't find anything? I would of course get the yard to check the horse etc etc once we find it, but I wouldn't even know where to start.

My horse is on working livery and it works for us, for now. BUT he’s too big for small children and not suitable for complete beginners and I ride in the evenings, so he mainly does private lessons with intermediate standard adults. Plus I have a full time job and mainly want to do a bit of extremely low-level dressage and jump over some very small jumps (not to say that I don’t try to do these things well, but I’m not really in it to add extra stress to my life). If I was an ambitious teenager I might find the whole set up a bit limiting.

As soon as you said you were North London and riding school I knew it had to be one of two places… TP was one of them funnily enough.

No, your budget doesn’t have to be that high. And I wouldn’t keep my horse there either, definitely not schooling livery.

That's very fair Squirrels, I think I and some others on here may have been unduly harsh on working livery, I think in some circumstances like yours it can work very well and I would hate to have my posts read as meaning no-one should ever use working livery. Clearly it does work for some owners as well as the schools, or people wouldn't continue to do it. You'd never want to keep a highly tuned competition horse that way, but on a small, careful yard where the horses aren't over-worked and are matched with riders responsibly I think it can be a really good solution esp for novice owners or those short on time or cash.

But (major but!) I know the North London/South Herts yards around OP fairly well and I don't think she'd be looking at the kind of arrangement where the horse does a few easy/fun hours in the week in exchange for nearly free livery - to be fair to the yards their running costs are very, very high in that part of the world, and every horse/pony has to more than earn its keep for them to stay in business, so the horse likely will be doing a proper 10-15 hours a week - even if horse is unsuitable for complete beginners s/he may end up doing 2 or 3 jump lessons a week or fast hacks or other quite hard work which could be worse in a way - although the horses get very fit I do wonder about their backs and mouths with relatively inexperienced (and sometimes not very fit themselves) people doing lots of fast work on them. Plus the school will definitely stipulate they have first 'call' on the horse at weekends and probably evenings and school holidays too, which will limit the DDs chances to ride when she wants to and do activities etc with her friends, and then to put the cherry on top, in all likelihood OP will still be charged a shockingly high (to those outside London anyway) bill at the end of it all - if anyone wants to give themselves a heart attack I can post the average costs of full vs working livery in that part of the world (a major reason I no longer live there)!

I agree, @maxelly, it sounds a very different set up and obviously OP’s dd probably wants to do very different things with her horse than I do! It’s not uncommon where I am that a teenager gets a first pony, stays for a bit to get their confidence up, then they move elsewhere because they want more flexibility.

The big riding schools charge a staggeringly high amount for livery and ‘shares’ and they usually have so many restrictions in place that it’s hard to see exactly what the owners are getting out of the arrangement.

We looked into both working livery and a riding school share and neither would have worked for us either financially or logistically.

One possibility is not getting your dd her own pony just yet and concentrate on getting her riding as much as possible without her own. My daughter had two lessons a week at different schools so she was riding a greater range of horses plus volunteering at the weekends and school holidays (which led onto paid work for her when she was a bit older). She also went to Wellington every year for their junior riding holidays - thoroughly recommended.

One of our main logistical problems was I work, we live in a big city and most yards (quite rightly) won’t allow under 15s to be unsupervised. As dd is the youngest of 3 I had too many competing demands on my time so she had to wait until she was older to have a share, then a loan (and then we bought him!). By that time she was a really confident rider and knew enough about stable management etc for us to take on the responsibility of a horse.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

I think that there are a few things to consider, buying being only one of them.

Depending on what you need £8k whilst a lot of money is not ridiculous. We bought DD (aged 12) a horse and we ended up doubling our original budget (and bought in your price range). We were looking for something similar but with the potential to take DD to competitions if she choose to in the future. Because of the size jump from a 13.2 pony to a 15+ horse, we wanted as much confidence as we could in what we were buying. (we had already done the green pony purchase, and whilst fun, was not what we wanted for something much bigger). I can PM you some suggestions of good dealers, including the excellent one we bought from.

I am not anti working-livery (it would suit our pony, he needs as much exercise as you can throw at him) but I would not suggest it for a new horse until your DD finds her way. Even with an amazing horse the first few months are hard and you may want to get your own bond / routine before you even think about working livery.

Practically, even if DD is very experienced you will need to help a 12 year old. Depending on the yard rules you will probably need to supervise turn out, hacking, using the school etc. Also, my DD is tall and experienced but lifting a heavy saddle on a 16h, and putting a bridle on can be a challenging some days! In the early days/weeks/months she will need a lot of hand holding.

Good luck though - it is an incredible journey!

Just for reference, I have exactly what you are looking for ( she's NOT for sale) 14'2 , 10 years old, jumps brilliantly , can do dressage - I paid £6500 for her ( and I am in SWLondon) - do not think you need such a huge budget ...

If it's the LEC, they used to loan out some of the horses and ponies...

Sorry, just seen it's TP 🤦‍♀️

Try the Facebook group Hertfordshire Horse Riders

A good, safe 14.2 for pony club is like hen's teeth. They would definitely be 8k nowadays (prices have gone up hugely). If she wants to compete, and that means even enter a local pony club show and jump clear round an 80cm class and it mustn't have any health issues, and under 12 years old but over 6, then yes 12k isn't unreasonable.

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Also - a placid happy hacker is one thing, a Pony Club pony quite another.

I bought my Connemara in the middle of last year. I paid 6K he’s in his late teens, competed BS and was ready for a step down. I spent 2 years on and off looking for something like him. He’s my first horse so I wanted something forgiving but still fun. He’d be a perfect pony club pony. Prices have gone up so much since I was looking last year, so I’m not surprised by 8K (not that they’re all worth that but that’s the market atm) but I’d pay more for him in a heartbeat he really is perfect and they are out there. I had a lot of failed viewings and even bought one from a dealer mentioned by a previous poster jo Wakefield who I actually returned. I wouldn’t recommend her. From what I’ve seen they’re green and not great quality (just my opinion it depends what you’re looking for , but for a first horse I wanted something I could just get on and start having fun without major issues). I recommend the Facebook group ‘pony club ponies for sale’. And if you go down the dealer route Join the dodgy dealers and sellers page on Facebook and do your research. Similarly on Horsemart google the phone numbers see if they’re linked to dealers / people and do some research - social media is amazing for what you can find out! Good luck - your pony is out there!

Agree with PPs OP. It can be difficult if you don't have a background and if you can't get expert, independent advice but it doesn't look like that school/yard is acting in your interests. I understand the market close to London is different but there are limits.

Good luck.

The other thing, OP, is that you might want to really kick the tyres on your daughter's desperation to own a pony as @Pleasedontdothat suggests. If you don't have a school that will act somewhat in your interest and you don't have a background and your daughter is 12 then it might not be in your interests.

An £8k pony is no longer going to be an £8k pony after 6 months of working livery in a busy London yard. Find a share, and look a little further away where budgets are less inflated.

FWIW, OP, we have working loans here where the yard buys the horses, loans them relatively cheaply to usually young riders then manages the horses activity and working lives by day, week, season and lifetime based on the amount or work each loaner does with their own horse (with younger riders, the riders tend to be available to do more during school holidays, less coming up to exams and when at University). It's more horse- than rider- focused so doesn't suit everyone but the loans are relatively cheap for young and non-wealthy riders. I know the market is different in London and we have one young woman who travels up from London to stay with family every school holiday and some weekends to enjoy a horse-focused school, partly because she hated the culture at the yard she used to be at in North London. They try and manage the portfolio to train up young horses and keep retired horses around until they pass. They use the horses for lessons, hacks and pony clubs so there is considerable juggling of availability but it means the riders gain experience from lots of horses. A few of the younger/more self-centred riders resent their horses being used for anything but (they or their parents) don't want to buy a horse and/or pay full livery/loan/.... Oddly, these tend to be the riders who will leave their horses un-exercised for weeks at a time.

Anybody who understands horses will have realised I know very little myself and that is only second hand from DC's involvement.

If you do go down the working livery route then it might be an idea to have an expert's understanding of how much work your pony should be doing by day/week/season? and see the yard's real-time administrative systems to ensure the pony doesn't exceed this taking into account your DD's independent use. Does the school have a tracking system and do they follow it - It's easy to set one up for Licensing purposes but do they flex it depending on the pony's condition and do the paid lessons take priority?

Good luck.

To be clear OP, I know it looks like I've posted will be of no help to you. I was just posting to provide a different data point of what is available elsewhere that looks to me to be horse-focused though I know your options will be more limited by your location.

Good luck.

I apologise for not replying properly. I am reading every post and I so appreciate al the advice!! Really rethinking the working livery part and willing to look much further afield. Unfortunately, work/life has been super stressful recently so have limited time to post.

I agree tp always does this. They trick you into buying a hairy cib for the price of a national champion, same with working livery. You don't know what type of child will be riding your horse! Full livery is definitely better.

*cob

Agree with not getting involved with working livery, I have seen this go badly wrong. Afraid I disagree about the price guess being extortionate, price are very high for safe and well behaved ponies and that’s what they are going for.
Are you on Facebook? I would recommend you join the group called dodgy dealers, search for the person or dealer you are going to view from and check the posts.

There are some VERY horrible, untrustworthy people in the selling world and you could get taken advantage of. They will also sell for each other and change names, be really careful.

I also would not recommend a novice buying from Ireland as IMO you can get some cracking ponies/horses but you need to really know what you are going.

It’s not actually as much fun as you would think, I find it very stressful buying a new horse.

@Nuggetz

I bought my Connemara in the middle of last year. I paid 6K he’s in his late teens, competed BS and was ready for a step down. I spent 2 years on and off looking for something like him. He’s my first horse so I wanted something forgiving but still fun. He’d be a perfect pony club pony. Prices have gone up so much since I was looking last year, so I’m not surprised by 8K (not that they’re all worth that but that’s the market atm) but I’d pay more for him in a heartbeat he really is perfect and they are out there. I had a lot of failed viewings and even bought one from a dealer mentioned by a previous poster jo Wakefield who I actually returned. I wouldn’t recommend her. From what I’ve seen they’re green and not great quality (just my opinion it depends what you’re looking for , but for a first horse I wanted something I could just get on and start having fun without major issues). I recommend the Facebook group ‘pony club ponies for sale’. And if you go down the dealer route Join the dodgy dealers and sellers page on Facebook and do your research. Similarly on Horsemart google the phone numbers see if they’re linked to dealers / people and do some research - social media is amazing for what you can find out! Good luck - your pony is out there!

I would not recommend Jo Wakefield either.

Or another dealer mentioned here is not one I rate either, put any names you are given in to the dodgy dealer group, also watch how they respond to people on social media, particularly in welfare cases or on dealer groups. Very enlightening.