Sending ‘difficult’ horse to a specialist trainer

[NoProblem123]

Ok - I’ve posted about this horse before and he’s got progressively worse despite lots of professional help.

Main issues are napping & rearing in any situation, both under saddle and in long reins.
Everything checked pain-wise several times, all fitted tack which has been checked several times.

Has anyone sent a horse away to a specialist behavioural trainer and been happy with the outcome ? Any experiences of it being a complete waste of time & money ?

I know you’ve had everything checked but have you tried x-raying their spine?

I think a good specialist can be worth their weight in gold however their aren’t many I’d use.
Maybe Sophie Seymour and Daniqua Westwood... I can’t off the top of my head think of any others I would use for behavioural stuff.

@lastqueenofscotland yes done, no ks diagnosis. Also scanned for ulcers (clear) but treated with Acid Ease just in case but no better.

I know Sophie Seymour has a good reputation.
I think the nub of the matter is how confident you are with this horse now. I know that if I had been witness to that behaviour, even if someone sorted it out, I wouldn’t feel happy or confident to ride it in the future anyway. So would you be throwing good money after bad.
I think some “ makeovers” are overegged. I went to a clinic day with a popular Kent horse trainer, some of the horses there had been previous schooling,fixing jobbies and none of them were particularly well behaved, all seemed a bit fragile.

@Cecillie I have thought I may never get back on this horse no matter what the outcome yes.
I feel this is his last chance to either be sold on safely, or know that I did everything I could and I would euthanise if necessary.

Miri Hackett seems to be good with the tricky ones. She's in YouTube so you can check her out first too.

The issue with getting him fixed to sell on is that he could easily fall into the wrong hands
If he looks smart and you sell him for a reasonably low price , if selling honestly, he could easily end up with a dealer being passed around for profit
Personally I would keep as a field ornament or euthanise , possibly a better safer outcome for him.
If quite big and well behaved on the ground it's worth thinking about the horse blood bank , they have a great life .

@Cecillie I would always be honest in any sale but ultimately he could end up be sold on so that is at the forefront of my mind.

He is very easy & well behaved on the ground except for clippers and needles !

I’d be wary of selling on a known dangerous horse on. Even with a LOU and sold on to be a companion there are plenty of dealers who’ll try and plenty of morons who don’t research their dealers

@lastqueenofscotland yes and I know that’s happened previously, when the trainer declares the horse dangerous and advises to either keep as a field ornament or euthanise, only for the owner to sell on with tragic results.
No matter what stipulations you set at the point of sale, you lose ultimate control.

I think getting a good trainer to assess him for say six weeks, if you can afford that, may make your decision easier if it comes to a choice of PTS or turn away.

Steve Young Horsemanship - based in Pembrokeshire (but willing to travel I believe) and has a Facebook page. Lots of in depth videos on there of what he does - worked wonders with a friend of mine’s horse.

Is he a full up vertical rearer, or a I know if I stand up I get away with shit rearer? Does he bolt at all?

If he's a standy up rearer as in an exaggerated form of napping I'd send him away for further schooling. If he's good on the ground and nice to be around he sounds more like he's lacking either confidence himself or lacking a confident rider to send him on regardless.

How old is he? Who broke him in? What has he done before? Has he ever gone forward or has this behaviour developed over time? Can you speak to previous owners?

Medically if his back is OK has he had his poll and teeth fully checked? Fully checked for any lameness? Eyes checked?

Depending on his age and background 6 months in the field then restarting can sometimes help. If he's on full livery maybe try and find summer grazing for him to save £££.

But to answer your question yes I would consider it if I thought that I would be brave enough to get back on and if the trainer would be able to continue support at home.

Maybe give an idea of area.

A good trainer will no doubt do wonders and should also work with you.

Personally check out Jas and Francois at Long Shot Stables in Warwickshire. They will not only help the horse but also help you feel confident riding the horse.

@NelliesWellies I have messaged Steve several times with no reply. I really like his approach. I’ve managed to have conversations with this daughter who does the videos but he’s really busy apparently and doesn’t really like having horses at his yard so tends to stay local unfortunately.

@HighlandCowbag
He’s been a serious napper since I’ve had him (about a year and a half) and has ramped up the rearing to vertical.
He’ll do it anywhere on the yard, leaving the yard, in the arena, at gates and junctions, on the beach, coming home, anywhere.
We’ve given him chunks of time in the field over both lockdowns, rechecked everything, and brought him back on long reins and he’s worse. He now goes up on the road, spins back and practically mows us down. This is a road with no traffic (thank god!), no wind, nothing at all to look at. This time last year he would happily hack down this road in company.

Yes she was then able to be ridden by a pro but not by me. I couldn't find anyone suitable to take her on, so she is a field ornament and is a good companion and appears happy. It cost a lot, but I needed to go through the process to get to the bottom of the problem.

What does he do if you take him somewhere new? It could be that he's locked in a cycle of expecting something to hurt or scare him in your yard and now he can't break out of it.

And will he lead out from another horse?

@QuestionableMouse he’s exactly the same away from home. We’ve done some arena hires and he naps away from the box, around the entrance and basically wherever he fancies it and goes vertical. He also has long periods of being being forward and going sweetly though.
We’ve taken him out on long hacks and once he gets going he can be great but then will start again with his naps/rears including in company.

He will lead from another horse by parking himself right and you need to haul him along but he will do it. He’s the same on the ground, always at a rope’s length away.

Right behind that should say.

I'd highly recommend Sophie Seymour - she's done some amazing work with friend's horses

If you don’t think you’d want to get back on I think you’d struggle to sell.
The only people I know who don’t mind rearers are really competitive riders who dont mind something really really quirky as long as it will jump round a BE intermediate/ do an advanced dressage test/ ping round a 1.30m
Very very few other riders would be interested and I’d be super wary of anyone that didn’t mind it.
If you were going to fix up to sell on I’d personally just retire the horse.

@lastqueenofscotland I agreed. He’s certainly got talent but not hopping around 1:30 tracks talent.

@StylishMummy I’m reading up on SS and the others mentioned by PP. Their reviews are encouraging - people in similar positions seem to have been turned around.

I recommend Steve Young Horsemanship.
Have you thought of sending him a video of the horse . As he seems to have wanted to intervened and help the horse when some have been really bad on the videos he has been sent it's worth a try .

Hmmm the straight up vertical is a bigger worry than temper tantrums. Obviously he's at risk of going over.

Without being rude are you competent and confident enough to continue extensive rehab work, assuming a trainer can initially get him going forward. My worry is that you would fork out money now to get him going nicely for a trainer, then he comes home, tries it on and you freeze or panic and he thinks yay normal service resumed.

There are plenty of nice horses out there. After 18 months, time off and full medical checks plus expert advice I'd be wary about throwing more money at him. I'd maybe ask a decent trainer to view videos or maybe come and see you ride and get their opinion. With the best will in the world, even an expert will struggle to see what the issue is from descriptions. You may ride like a sack of shit (absolutely no offence intended) and be doing something fundamentally wrong. He might be in pain or have an issue an experienced trainer can spot immediately.

But all that said, if he's going up vertical for any reason whatsoever he's dangerous and the more times he does it, the more entrenched the behaviour becomes.