Feel like I've ruined my pony :(

[HereWeGoAHen]

I know they say you 'can't' ruin a horse. But I just have this niggling feeling that I have.

I got my dream pony about a year ago. She was the most lovely responsive ride I'd ever sat on, but generally very sensible if a little spooky. She'd been a field ornament for nearly 2 years and was horribly overweight but had, once upon a time, been beautifully schooled and done rather well on the dressage circuit. Her previous owner before losing interest was not much of a rider at all and terribly nervous, so I didn't feel I could be any worse.

For the first 6 months things went well. We got better and better in our flatwork, outline more consistent, suppleness improving, nice and forward, started lateral work and moved up to prelim as her fitness improved. We did lots of ground work too and had a great connection.

But then she started having some back issues - mostly tightness on one side. And my back got really bad too. I saw a physio who said I have mild scoliosis, basically I'm slightly twisted and very weak through one leg vs the other. Pony's back was sorted with backman and lots of long and low, polework etc. But every time it got better, after a month or so it got worse again. Same with mine.

Fast forward to now. For past month, pony won't take contact for more than a few strides at all. Through one rein she's totally wooden. I've had back checked - no different to usual. Teeth done - fine. Saddle checked - fits her although not a great fit for me.

Now all I can think is that I've ruined her. it feels every ride we're just getting worse, she's becoming less responsive too. Just feeling a bit rubbish and not sure what to try next.

How old is she? Hock issues can cause all the above problems, so may be worth checking for that, also if it's worse when she's in season? If so her ovaries could be the issue.

I'd also look at girth and numnah, if either aren't comfy it can impact your horse's way of going.

Do you have an instructor to help or give a second opinion? Is she still happily hacking etc? Don’t beat yourself up, horses are hard work and we do sometimes need to make changes but all we can do is keep trying. Do you think that she might have had issues before possibly that led to the time off? If the saddle isn’t good for you that could be an issue, it really should fit both of you...

She's 13 and not showing any lameness signs but I could ask the vet to take a look. Will I end up with anything to do with legs and joints excluded from her insurance if I just ask the vet to look and it turns out she's fine? That always worries me. She's had the same girth and saddle pad since I got her which she used to go well in - I could get her a fleece girth cover to see if it makes a difference. She is moulting a lot at the moment, she doesn't usually get very hormonal.

How old is she
My mare has been an absolute witch the last ten days or so due to the windy weather we’ve been having. I gave up after 10 minutes yesterday as she was getting more and more tense and spooky instead of less as we tried to work in. Usually she’s a saint.

Have you scoped? I’m from a racing background where scoping is seen as way less of a big deal but it’s something I do fairly often as I think ulcers lead to a lot of behavioural changes.

@CountryCob I do have a lovely instructor and we had our first lesson back recently after ages off. I thought we maybe just got worse because of ages without lessons - annoyingly in my lesson she went ok, but as soon as back alone it went back to like before. Which again makes me think it's just me. The saddle is a kids saddle and I'm an adult so it really doesn't fit my bum although it is a decent fit on Pony!

Aww I don't think you've ruined her, not at all... I know what it feels like to have a broken one though so you have my sympathies

I think what I've realised through my long road with my on-and-off lame mare (with her after much trial and error we finally established the issue was arthritic changes, first in one hock then the other, and now sadly in a front leg too ) is that (a) horses can't talk (obviously!) and where they are sweet tempered and want to please they will 'mask' pain and show symptoms in lots of odd ways which make it really hard to know what's actually wrong even for professionals (my mare wasn't obviously lame for ages but was showing she was 'wrong' in subtle behavioural ways that puzzled and confused me, my instructor, my YO, physio and even the vet for far too long) and (b) whether or not a horse stays sound or not seems to be hugely a matter of luck, obviously conformation and management/workload plays a big part, again my mare is pretty badly put together (she was a rescue case) but so is her 'sister', my other mare, who stands up happily to a much higher workload including long fast hacks over hard ground and lots of jumping etc with never a sick or sorry day whereas sadly the other seems to break down even in light work. It's human nature to try and find patterns and logic in the randomness, to try and find something or someone to 'blame' even if that means blaming ourselves but you sound a very responsible and careful owner, it's really unlikely you've caused this in any way.

I'd get a full work-up, maybe xrays from a good performance vet, that's what eventually found the issue with mine after literally months of my normal vet fobbing me off (in the nicest possible way) with 'she's not lame it must be a training issue' type comments. Ulcers is a good possible shout as well so worth considering a scope. I would def also look for a saddle that fits you both, if you aren't able to balance yourself properly because it's too small that probably won't be helping... If things are not escalating in terms of her behaviour and she's not lame I'd keep riding, this is the time of year when everything is super spooky and fresh (spring grass, wind, coats on the turn, mares possibly coming into season etc etc)

Thanks @maxelly yes mine isn't blessed with the best conformation either...a bit cow hocked and hump backed bless her! But she did used to perform fairly well despite of that - we have no Olympic aspirations :) :) It definitely sounds like a work up and scoping may be my next route as I really just feel something isn't right but can't place my finger on it unless it's me.

I'm just a bit terrified of the vet / insurance situation after my lovely instructor got basically excluded from everything with her horse literally just for asking her vet to run a blood test (which turned out to be nothing and she was just being a mardy mare). I rely on our insurance as a safety net if Pony ever needed an op for the dreaded colic or something horrid like KS which I couldn't afford without it so I'm scared of losing it for something so silly as just investigating. But of course if that's the only way I will, I would never want Pony being in pain or ill and me just not knowing because she's so stoic. She absolutely would try to hide it and carry on, she's such a gem.

You won’t lose insurance for everything even if your insurers do end up placing exclusions on the policy so you’d still be covered for things like colic

Before paying for a tonne of scans, how about isolating some variables yourself: you said she seems fine/improves if doing work without a rider (are the poles on the lunge?)? I would get the saddle issue sorted (needs to fit you as well as her!), and see if you can find a physio that works with riders: it might well be that your unevenness is affecting her (happens often enough). There are physios out there that offer straightness assessments with riders. You need an instructor that is really good at sorting seat issues, and if she went well during a lesson, then perhaps you are not able currently to fully implement what your instructor is suggesting, when you are on your own. This is a fairly common issue, and one of the first places I would look: building up the strength/fitness and changing old habits/retraining muscles takes time (as I'm finding out myself...). Hopefully, all that's wrong is that she's getting crooked because of some crookedness coming from you (and a saddle that doesn't fit you), and once that is sorted, she'll get better! As I said, it's a common problem, and nothing to be ashamed of.

Thank you lots all. I have a physio session today so I'm hoping that may make a difference. I tried her with a different bit today just to see- only another snaffle but with a lozenge to play with and she was a bit happier but still inconsistent and lots of moments of hollowness, stiffness and even head tilting to one side. It's just the fact she never used to be like this. Yes she is def better on the lunge, with and without poles. But not perfect. It takes quite a lot of effort to send her forward whether on the lunge or ridden these days - she used to be a little steamtrain.

One thing I would say is if the saddle doesn’t fit you it’s probably putting a lot of pressure on the back of the saddle? Which could be an issue.

Do you have physio for your back issues. I went to a vet talk about back issues and they told of 1 case where they kept coming out to a horse but could never see what was wrong. Every time the owners friend rode so the owner could talk through the exam with the vet. Eventually the horse came into the clinic for a full work up, x Ray's etc. This time the owners friend couldn't be there so the owner rode. By coincidence a physio who treated humans and horses had brought her horse in and the vet asked the owner if they minded her watching so they could bounce ideas. Turned out the issue was the riders back, once she had treatment the horses problems disappeared.

Had my physio session today and I now not only have scoliosis but a loose hip ligament so I'm pretty sure that will be having an impact on her. My YO also reckons I should test for Cushings but I'm not convinced as she doesn't really display any main symptoms I don't think

I know it's really tricky when you're riding a pony, but it would probably help to have a saddle that fits you too.

I would also try to have a performance workup with a vet, as it does sound like maybe there is something minor physically which is having an impact. Exclusions shouldn't impact your cover for catastrophic problems.

Really, a physio shouldn't be treating without a go-ahead from the vet anyway. Is your physio registered with any of the professional bodies?

Firstly, you clearly love and care for your pony hugely, so please don’t feel too unhappy. You are so evidently doing your best for her.

Secondly, I would look at saddle fit, fit you and your pony. If you are too big for your saddle then a) there will be too much weight at the back, which will make pony’s back sore, and b) you will be tipped forward onto your crotch by having your bum on the back of the saddle where it curves up towards the cantle, which will put strain on your lower back and make it impossible for you to sit in an effective, neutral position.

You could look at saddle options with upswept panels, or a dressage saddle with smaller blocks and a flatter seat. Or perhaps a showing style saddle, which tend to be very open in the seat, and are often suited to ponies ridden by adults. And consider riding with longer stirrups. The closer your thigh is to a vertical position, the further forwards you can sit in the saddle, which can help taller/bigger riders get away with smaller saddles. Have a qualified fitter with a range of saddles come and assess you both - all the better if you can get a recommendation from other adults who ride ponies.

Everything that has been said above about scoping, the connection between back pain and lameness, etc, is quite right, but as your pony is not obviously lame or showing other symptoms, I’d start with the saddle because it’s a known problem and then look into other things if that doesn’t resolve things.

Good luck

@Postapocalypticcowgirl The physio was for me, not Pony! I don't think Human physios need go ahead from the vet to treat 🤣

@Feawen Yes that's exactly what's happening with my saddle - I'm tipping forward and gripping with my knee which I've never ever done with previous horses / saddles. I've booked a master saddler to come in a couple of weeks so fingers crossed. I am really concerned now though that my latest physio diagnosis means I will constantly be passing on my own 'poor confirmation' faults to Pony, regardless of saddle and how she is in herself without me being all stiff, twisted and lopsided on top of her

@HereWeGoAHen I have mild scoliosis too - not diagnosed until my mid twenties. Like anyone who wants to be a good rider, I need to be very aware of using my legs equally, sitting evenly on both seatbones, using my core effectively, being aware of my dominant hand, etc. However, I have ridden a great many horses across a variety of disciplines, retired my last horse at 26 having owned him from a 5 year old, trained him through all his baby crookedness and lack of balance through to performing canter half-passes, pirouettes, tempis, and starting half steps, before he stepped down to lighter work in his late teens. I love feeling horses develop into strong, supple athletes.

All this was true before anyone told me I had scoliosis, and is still true now. I was always aware I had to work hard to sit evenly and use my body equally, and now I know it’s a bit harder for me than other riders. I thought of saying this in my first post, but didn’t want to make it all about me - but reading your reply it seems worth saying. You can still be a good rider (I certainly don’t plan to stop trying - there is always more to learn). I now have a young Spanish horse who is as sharp as a very pointy thing, who lets me know quite clearly if I’m not riding him evenly , and plan to further explore classical dressage with him.

No human is perfectly symmetrical, they might have scoliosis like us, or nearly everyone is either right or left handed, some have one leg longer than the other, some have joint degeneration and are not as flexible, some have hypermobility, etc. Horses are also always suppler on one side and stronger on the other. Of course as riders we need to be aware of how our strengths and weaknesses affect our horses, but if only perfect people could ride then no one ever would!

Perhaps you could ask you physio for exercises that help with core strength, suppleness, and strengthening your weaker leg. I do yoga (started before I knew anything about scoliosis) but it doesn’t suit everyone. Your physio might have specific recommendations for you.

Hello can I highly recommend you check out Julie Driver She specialises in equestrian Pilates, juliedriverpilates.com/equestrians/

Can you get your instructor to ride her for a few lessons to see whether it feels as though your pony has more muscle on one side than the other to compensate how differently you might ride because of your hip and back? And yes to changing the saddle.

Saddle needs to fit you too, otherwise it won't fit the pony with you onboard.

Once you have that sussed I'd hack out for a month, hills and fitness work to straighten her up, then get a lesson for you with an instructor who can hop on as well. Or someone else a similar standard to you, an instructor should be able to hold a wonky pony together a bit better than the average rider. And then assess whether you need a full work up. She may just be a bit wonky cos you are a bit wonky but straight hacking should build her fitness up a bit, as long as the saddle fits the both of you.

Wow thanks @Feawen that's really good to know that there's hope! I'm almost less worried about the scoliosis than the bursitis in my hip...I can't follow the movement as it's either popping or locking, but hopefully it's something my physio can get fixed. A new saddle may help too.

At her age some arthritic changes are inevitable. Bite the bullet & get a proper assessment from your vet. He can identify what is wrong & treat it under insurance. It will be excluded after treated ( you usually get 12 months coverage to your maximum insurance level). After that, it will be an exclusion, but frankly, by mid-teens, there are often so many exclusions insurance is not worth it.
We got our 13 yo Dhorse assessed last year, got both hock & stifle treatments and he is now going really well. We accept that going forward we will have to pay for steroid injections, but worth it for a sound & pain free horse.

My mare was similar to how you describe. Turns out she had slight degeneration in one of her TMJ joints. The discomfort can mimic many other ailments so it really would be worth getting your vet to investigate, if not to rule out things. The only way they can tell us they’re uncomfortable is by their behaviour.

The vet injected a steroid - likely she’ll have to have them yearly now but the whole vets bill was £420 to include scans, x-rays, steroid and visit. Pony changed within a week of treatment. 😊