curing a horse tht rears

[firthy85]

i used to ride horses often in my younger days as a student. the phrase i often heard from people with bad behaved horses was once bad can't be cured. i knew someone with a really explosive rearer. it was like "i don't want to do that so up i go and i hope you fall off". so my question do you think they can be cured of such behaviour?

I think it depends upon the reason behind it, how ingrained it is and how good/patient the person working with the horse is.

Sometimes, yes.

I bought one that was a rearer, owned her two years. The first few months were awful, constantly on her back two legs and fell off multiple times, was told to shoot her because she was going to kill me. It did take a lot of work and sometimes got frustrating but was happily jumping round 1.10 courses after a few months, very rarely reared. Sold her and the new owner couldnt even get on her after a few weeks because of bad a rearer she was. No health issues found, just needed a certain rider.

sometiems i wonder if it has become a bit too easy to use pts as as a way of getting rid of the problem instead of seing if it can be fixed.

I think it depends on how and why they rear. I ride a horse who rears. There are definitely 'better' ways to ride him and avoid it.

With a lot of time, care and expertise, willingness to risk your neck and (usually) deep pockets to fund some extensive vet investigations and rehab, yes it can be fixed. If its an expensive competition or sports horse it may well be worth putting that time and effort in and taking the risk the horse will come good or can at least be managed in a pro/competitive setting...

But I would say for your average leisure/amateur rider that's beyond their capability and I would say its far far better to PTS than pass the horse on to an uncertain future. I have to say that personally I would never fully trust or feel confident about a rearer, even a reformed one (talking about a true 'full on' habit of standing up on 2 legs while ridden, not a playful youngster that's gone up in hand, or a nappy sod that bunny hops up in a strop, very different things IMO), perhaps this is just an unfair perception but I would say it's the most dangerous of all the behavioural habits (particularly if unpredictable) and I could never be confident they wouldn't revert to type if anything ever hurt or upset them even if the original problem was fully fixed. With the best will and most careful management in the world all horses have occasion niggles or frights and they need to be able to reliably cope. I certainly wouldn't put a child or friend of mine on a horse that had I know had ever reared and Tbh I'm too old and cautious myself now for that malarkey. Nor would I feel confident selling or loaning on a horse known to rear other than perhaps to a professional home with a guarantee horse wouldnt be sold again (and how many of those are there for bog standard horses) ...

I'm not saying everyone should pts at the first sign of rearing but certainly I'd never judge harshly if that's the outcome someone comes to after careful deliberation...

I agree, it's definitely the most dangerous behavioral habit. I'd never want to see anyone ride a full on throw themselves over backwards type. I agonised for a long time about whether to keep riding my lad. He doesn't do it 'just because' but will rear and strike in front of him when very frightened. For him it's about avoiding certain triggers and working on confidence. If he were to get worse I'd 100% stop riding him. It's not worth the risk.

My daughter worked with one youngster who was basically a spoiled brat after being left far too long. Her (young and inexperienced) owner kept pulling her out of the field and trying to ride then chucking her back in the field when it was too difficult. The horse quickly learnt that bad temper gained her good food and field time. Can't blame the horse or owner really, just a sad combination caused by parents with money and no understanding. When my daughter took over we quickly realised she just needed riding to be more fun and interesting than being in a field with her mates. It didn't take long for her to realise that bad temper got her no where but good temper got her out to places with other horses. She came round quickly and made a nice horse for the owner however, personally, I wouldn't have put a child on her knowing that she was capable of resorting to throwing herself over if the mood took her.

Rearing scares me, and not much else does. Having sad that I do thi9nk it depends on WHY a horse is rearing - as a reaction to poorly fitting tack / pain / illness is much less of an issue than a learned behavioral response ....I wouldn't willingly ride a horse that rears when things don't go its way ....

It depends on the horse and it depends on the reason for rearing. But yes, in my experience it can be cured. I took on the rehabilitation of an ex racehorse many years ago and his go to reaction when frightened /confused /irritated was straight up on the 2 back legs. He couldn't even trot in balance as he had never learned, would go straight to canter from a standstill. It took years, but we got there in the end. He's now retired but I had many happy years of hacking and cross country on him. In hindsight, if I had understood the enormity of what I was taking on, I probably would not have done it. It was one of the most difficult and most rewarding experiences of my life.

As has been said - it depends on why they rear. Get to the root cause and eliminate that, and it might be possible to cure the reaction.

Mine was a rearer when I got her - discovered the trigger was back/tack. Fixed that. No more rearing. However, she can be argumentative and if gets into a real strop and can't get her out of it she might rear. But I know that and so avoid situations that might trigger a full blown strop - she's not nappy but can get into a real state if asked to hack past something very unusual/scary. If I were to push it - she'd spin and rear. So I get off, lead her past, get back on.

I bought one a couple of years ago, perfect when I tried it but as soon as I got it home it would rear right up vertically and refuse to leave the yard. I tried everything, went back to basics, vet checks, in hand work & leading out for months etc etc but it still did it and once it had gone up and over backwards deliberately with me I threw the towel in, I’m too old to be frightened like that. It went to be reschooled with a professional who worked very hard with it and although didn’t eliminate the issue it became manageable with the right rider - a young man who was apparently fearless.

It continued to rear but because the rider basically ignored it the horse realised that it didn’t really work and eventually only did it when very pissed off at something. He loves it, it’s a cracking horse for him and very smart, just not for me. It frightened the life out of me for a while and I was extremely nervous for ages.

Contact Karl Greenwood at the www.horsebackcombat.co.uk/
or on FB - he does lots of live stuff and invites questions. They teach horses to rear so should be able to reverse the process!!

@frostyfingers that must have been dam scary.i don't ride now nor own a horse i just made this post as i did ride a lot in my younger days and often heard reference to these "naughty horses that rear and get rid of them. i have also heard that quite often if a horse goes up and over it gives its self such a fright that most of the time it's the first time and last time. but can understand you not wanting to take that risk.

I'm a BHSII, I did my apprenticeship with Derek Ricketts, the Chef d'Equipe of the Olympic team at Pyecombe, went on to play polo at Kirtlington, moved on to working with Michael Peace on horses with problems and ended up working for Denis Grattan, who specialises in racehorses who have major problems but are too expensive to be pts. I'm not showing off, I just would like you to know that horses who have learned to rear to get their own way are lethal. Once a horse has developed a neural pathway that allows him/her to realise that he's bigger and stronger than you, and that he can get his own way by rearing, you've lost that animal. I've worked with many rearers, including one, Pip, who got to the point where she would throw herself over backwards, simply because she knew she could. Don't risk it poppet x

That's really interesting Elisi. In your experience would you say the point about neural pathways extends to other behavioural issues, e.g. tanking off or bucking? Or are those things you have ways of working on?

I have taken on a rescue 12 yr old, she is amazing and i love her BUT the sanctaury I got her from said she can rear but a tiny little rear when loading or similar. I have had her 4 months. Ive been in contact with previous owners who have sent her back due to rearing and bad behaviour. They sent her back as a hacker because she hates schooling, one person told me she reared up while hacking. One person told me she reared in the school.
Ive hacked her since having her a week and nothing. Past month been in the menage and a bit of ears back not wanting to go forward thats been it....
However my yard owner tried to take her into the wet room to wash her legs and she wouldnt go in and she was awful. rearing and being naughty, it made me feel horrible because I didnt take control and have never seen that behaviour before but I feel she was scared to go in

@Elisi

I'm a BHSII, I did my apprenticeship with Derek Ricketts, the Chef d'Equipe of the Olympic team at Pyecombe, went on to play polo at Kirtlington, moved on to working with Michael Peace on horses with problems and ended up working for Denis Grattan, who specialises in racehorses who have major problems but are too expensive to be pts. I'm not showing off, I just would like you to know that horses who have learned to rear to get their own way are lethal. Once a horse has developed a neural pathway that allows him/her to realise that he's bigger and stronger than you, and that he can get his own way by rearing, you've lost that animal. I've worked with many rearers, including one, Pip, who got to the point where she would throw herself over backwards, simply because she knew she could. Don't risk it poppet x

Not Pipkin?!

@Elisi

Would agree. One a full rearer always.

I broke in a Lippizane x Welsh d and he was awful. Any sign of fear he would be up on his back legs. He did it on the ground and under saddle. I actually think it’s worse on the ground when they strike. He was checked over and was perfectly sound. 6 months after breaking he was going well enough, but he got grass sickness and had to be put down. I’m actually not sure what I would have done with him if he hadn’t because it’s not a pleasure to ride a horse like this. I felt constantly on edge and I wouldn’t sell him like that for fear of litigation!

RN I have an ex racer and he is very impatient and does occasional mini rears in a playful mischievous way and it’s a lot different from the latter.

Does he bounce? :D

I would say for your average leisure/amateur rider that's beyond their capability and I would say its far far better to PTS than pass the horse on to an uncertain future. I have to say that personally I would never fully trust or feel confident about a rearer, even a reformed one (talking about a true 'full on' habit of standing up on 2 legs while ridden, not a playful youngster that's gone up in hand, or a nappy sod that bunny hops up in a strop, very different things IMO), perhaps this is just an unfair perception but I would say it's the most dangerous of all the behavioural habits (particularly if unpredictable) and I could never be confident they wouldn't revert to type if anything ever hurt or upset them even if the original problem was fully fixed. With the best will and most careful management in the world all horses have occasion niggles or frights and they need to be able to reliably cope.

I agree with all of this. I used to work with someone who had grown up working at a dealing yard. Dealers she worked for used to take on and 'cure' all sorts. Some of the methods they used then would now be considered quite brutal it's true. The one behaviour they were all very wary of was rearing. Anything else she said they would take on and cure the horse but not that. Much of it was because of the danger level. You don't just risk falling off - it's having the horse land on top of you.

The other problem is that most riders, all but the most experienced professionals, will reinforce rearing and inadvertently train a horse to rear. If a horse goes up you'll almost certainly release the pressure - whether it's leg, or rein, or asking a horse to deal with something it doesn't like, you'll stop doing it. So the horse learns it's a great way to get out of a situation. So much as I would like to give every horse a chance and thoroughly check everything to give them the best chance, I am very wary of rearers. PTS may be the best answer, in the interest of human safety.

That said, my first horse reared but in all honesty it was a very balanced levade. It felt much more like he was just playing. It was never threatening or felt remotely like he was going to go over backwards, so it does depend on the circumstances.

A lovely and very gentle local trainer to me has posted videos of her dealing with rearers - in very controlled conditions to start with and its interesting to watch. My old instructor once bought a horse for her riding school, (owns a big riding school in Essex) obviously got on it first and it was a 'full on throw themselves over backwards' the minute she sat on it - so it didn't stay and she had some rather harsh words

Sometimes there is a very simple cause eg. we bought a £300 failed racehorse who came with a big health warning, particularly concerning his behaviour in traffic. We were told that he WILL rear and then spin and bolt if he meets traffic of any kind on a ride, and that he is generally sharp / unpredictable / difficult. We weren't too bothered as we back onto open hill so can avoid traffic altogether. My partner bought him as a '2nd pony' for himself (his 1st pony was also a failed racehorse!) but he's grown up around cattle and is used to handling bulls etc so in comparison a horse who politely follows you onto a trailer and allows you to tie him up and pick up his hooves is a dream.

Anyway we quickly found that he really wasn't all that bad. Bit quirky in some respects but my partner who had only been riding 2/3 years was coping with him fine.

I'm pretty sure that most of his problems in his previous homes stemmed from an ill-fitting saddle (which caused him pain when he tensed at the sight of a car, creating instant vicious circle), and the fact that his previous owner was scared of him. Within a few months he was a totally different animal and we certainly didn't throw money at him or get professional help or anything fancy. I think he just likes the lifestyle here - living out, being ridden over the hills, and handled by somebody who's grateful he's not a bull instead of fearing what his next move will be. We even got him to win a race at last, at the grand old age of 9!

Of course it's not always so simple and I agree that a horse who has learned to rear as a means of evasion is very dangerous and terrifying. I'd rather shoot one of those than ride it I'm afraid.

I think these days most owners realise that rearing doesn't just happen for no reason. Sometimes it is an evasion, sometimes it is a response to pain. I do think there are rearers and rearers, though - there's a big difference between a halfway up balanced rear and a straight up and risks going over.

Generally, you need to solve the root cause - which will often require money on vet investigations and treatment. And even then, some horses will rear in response to remembered pain.

I would never judge anyone who PTS a proper reader if they didn't feel able to cope. I don't think it's a problem that should be passed on.

[quote firthy85]@frostyfingers that must have been dam scary.i don't ride now nor own a horse i just made this post as i did ride a lot in my younger days and often heard reference to these "naughty horses that rear and get rid of them. i have also heard that quite often if a horse goes up and over it gives its self such a fright that most of the time it's the first time and last time. but can understand you not wanting to take that risk.[/quote]
Quite often going up and over isn't deliberate on the horse's part - it happens because the rear is unbalanced and the rider unbalances them further. It's not something that's fully in the horse's control. Also the initial reaction is often due to pain or fear - the horse isn't thinking rationally (in so far as horses ever do).

You are talking about a behaviour that kills and seriously injures people and horses. I think you need to be a bit more responsible in what you are saying.

I had a Hanoverian who would go up and over backwards. It was sheer temper with him. He would just flip out and say no.

He had everything checked and then checked again. He wasn't in pain as far as I could ever find out.

He hated two things. Being ridden in an outline in the school (would work out on a hack) and loading in a trailer. He would go up and over backwards at the mere suggestion of either.

Spent a fortune on x-rays, saddle fittings, back man, you name it I tried it. He was a very talented horse but when he said no he meant it and literally threw his weight around.

I found out later he'd been a grade a show jumper but had gone 'sour', so they swapped him to dressage and that's when he began to rear. Part of me thinks the horse had just had too much work to young and learned how to get out of it.

I used him as a very smart happy hack and he was perfect but I was always aware I was riding him on his terms, which isn't a particularly safe feeling on a 16.2 who knows her can deck you.