Buy a horse ?

[MrsRusselBrand]

Honest answers pls - all you horse owners !
DD13 has been riding since she was 3 , lessons 2/3 times a week , played polocrosse . Also competed with the riding school inter centre comps and some unaffiliated jumping at a local riding school . She has done the helpers course , rosette courses , pony club badges etc . We have loaned a pony for around a year , which has sadly come to an end . For the 3 days a week we did everything from bringing in from field , haynets , water , feed , grooming , lunging and of course riding and my daughter had some lessons on him too.
I have no experience with horses before all this , I do feel I have learned a lot over the years but not from a horsey background .
So - we are thinking of buying a horse , I have done the maths and I think I can afford it . My real worry is do we have the skills between us to properly look after a horse . Like I say , DD has been around horses most of her life , so by proxy so have I , but I don't have all the experience that others have when I hear them talking at the yard . I am a good listener tho and I always ask when I don't understand or look it up .
I really want to do this for her , she is totally ready and I know she is committed . As the responsible adult , I just don't want to undertake something I am not qualified for . I am quite a risk averse person and I am not impulsive , I have been mulling this over for several months now !!
Should I just do it ? Is this the only wait to learn ? Or am I missing a vital step in the route to owning a horse ?

Can you afford full or part livery? That way someone knowledgeable would be checking on the horse and ensuring things didn’t get missed. And you could both increase your horsey know-how at the same time. At 13, it’s unlikely your dd would be allowed to be on the yard unsupervised so if you don’t have time to take her twice a day every day, you’re going to need some help anyway.

Definitely include lessons in your budget - quite a few parents seem to think that because their child is no longer at a riding school they don’t need formal lessons any more - and you see some horrible, albeit confident, riding as a result ...

The horse market is still a bit mad at the moment - any half decent horse or pony is being sold almost immediately at inflated prices so you may be better off waiting for a few weeks. That would give you time to research different yards near you and find out what they can offer (good turnout is much more important for horse welfare than fancy facilities). And if you can, invest in some stable management lessons for yourself so you feel a bit more confident. Good luck!

@MrsRusselBrand similar story to what we did when DD was 12, 15 years ago! We were on DIY but on a BHS approved yard so there was plenty of advice available. Be prepared for it to become all consuming and costly. Think about holidays and cover for illness. I used to take DD at 6.00 a.m. every morning to feed, skip out, prepare hay nets, rug up, pick out feet, turnout then back home for breakfast and get ready for school/work and leave at 8.00 a.m.! After school one of the grans would pick up and take her to the yard and wait with her until her dad arrived at 4.30 p.m. They would get home around 6.00 p.m. if DD was unwell then either I or her dad would have to cover the routine as you can’t just decide not to go. Holidays we went onto full livery, but this was not offered other than holiday cover and not on Christmas Day unless you were away. We also lived 5 mins from the yard so it was manageable. As DD got older, weekends were full on competing - dressage, jumping, cross country, showing. DD took her horse to Uni. Now at 27 she has a PhD, a full time job in research and an equine business. She has also bought another horse to bring on and still has the original. A hobby like riding can become all consuming and expensive, but it teaches responsibility and respect. Just be sure you can cope with all the possibilities because if your DD loses interest then you could be left with a pony you can’t shift but you still have to pay for!

Thanks for those honest replies !
I can afford DIY livery and that's my preference anyway as I do really enjoy the whole experience- love mucking out and find it very therapeutic ! I can definitely afford the time , I do work full time and an a single parent but she is an only child and my job is fairly flexible as to start times . The yard I have my eye on is on the school route so would work out fine in terms of before / after school.
As for losing interest , she got on her first horse on her 3rd bday and we have been riding every weekend since , for over 10 years so I think this is here to stay !!
The yard has 24/7 summer turn out and limited in winter but they will do morning feed / nets . I agree this is one of the most important factors , we live rurally so there is plenty of grazing .
Let's just hope there is the right horse out there at the right price !!!

It sounds like you've done your homework re: yards @MrsRusselBrand, you just need to find the right horse. Don't be in too much of a rush, the right horse is our there but it's very easy to get the wrong one, and bad ones cost as much to keep as good ones and could completely wreck your horsey future. If you've been involved in pony club I'd ask if anyone knows of a suitable pony or any you should avoid. Watch out for dodgy dealers (there are some great Facebook pages warning of them). When you go to visit it's always a gód sign if you can see the pony caught in from the field and go back in its stable after. Ponys you can't catch are a pain (been there done that, sooo stressful) and ones that gnaw the woodwork,crib, windsuck or kick the walls all have their own problems. They can be overcome but that's not what you really want to do with a first horse. Most importantly though get one that your daughter is confident with, not one she'll grow into. You want her to want to push the horse forward, not be constantly holding it back. There's nothing worse than being over horsed. Confidence is a fragile thing like ice on a pond, cracks easily and once you've seen the depths below it spoils everything, you get it back but the cracks are still there... You've a world of fun ahead of you both op, as well as some cold wet mornings, enjoy and have fun with a good furry friend xx

@Mysa74
Thank you for all that amazing advice !! Our last short term loan was exactly that , a confidence breaker . He reared , napped , bucked , backed into fences , wheelbarrows , refused to leave the yard on his own . We had to give up in the end , he just needed more than we could give and it was destroying her confidence , I would see it ebb away day by day . She had gone from jumping a 1m course with our previous cob , to asking to get off (which she never does ) .
We are viewing a 5yo ex racer that's been re trained on Friday . She has ridden an ex racer before so we will see . We are not in a rush as I don't want our first owning experience to be a bad one . Patience is a virtue as they say !!

@Mysa74 and thanks for the advice of seeing them catch and bring in - I hadn't thought of that so have asked them if we can do that when we view on Friday x

I would be looking for something that’s already doing the job you want it to do - that could mean looking for a pony/horse in its mid-teens, whose owner is going to university/moved onto something more competitive. I would be wary of getting something as young as 5 for your/your DD’s first horse. Everything will be much smoother if one part of the partnership is more experienced - sometimes that’s the rider, but sometimes that’s the horse. Your dd will want to be out having fun - and that’s a lot easier when you know your horse will load and travel well, is easy to hack out, knows what to do when it sees show jumps, has done XC, doesn’t freak out seeing the judge’s car at the end of a dressage arena etc etc

Most horses are perfectly physically capable of jumping a metre course and doing novice dressage - a willing attitude and easy-going personality counts for a lot more than physical talent when you’re starting out! I can’t remember which rider said that most people would be better off getting a £2,000 horse and spending £20,000 on lessons than getting a £20,000 horse and spending £2,000 on lessons but it’s very good advice!

Having worked in horse racing for year I would be wary of an ex racer. Some of them are lovely. Most are well mannered in the stable and they are fairly bombproof to handle. However they have been taught nothing but to gallop in a straight line and possibly round a corner, maybe even to hurl themselves over an obstacle a frightening speed. If your horse is only 5 it can have potentially raced from age 2, 3 over fences. It has not had much time to be retrained. Not saying it isn't possible but you will have to be prepared to go right back to the very very beginning of its education. TBs are by their very nature fast and flighty. The stable lads are so used to riding them that what they consider quiet often is anything but to any other rider.
When you ride a racehorse, you stand up in the stirrups and don't really have much use of your legs as aids. So we teach the horses to quicken and pull by doing something called "changing hands" which is basically shortening the reins and crouching a bit closer to the horses neck. To get them to calm down we kick feet out of the stirrups and loosen reins (obviously only when walking/jogging). A good teacher is a must.

I would be very wary of a young ex racehorse for a 13 year old. Ive has a lot in my time! I’m reschooling a 4yo who raced at 2 and they’ll had 2 years to let down in a field and she is super quiet however they rarely hack alone well and generally are big powerful horses. The lovely mare I’m working with is a sweetheart but she’s got a whacking great stride which makes her too much for some riders in the canter even though she’s polite and also she just doesn’t hack alone, she just plants herself

Thanks so much for your advice and comments on ex racers , it's very useful , and maybe I am just hoping for a gem that we can work with ( and that may be impossible ! ) . We have a trainer who will be work idm with us and she is advising us . The one was saw videos of this morning was clearly fresh OTT and would have not been a match .
I take on board all those valid comments about how jockeys ride differently too . My daughter has been riding my friends ex racer and I think has just fell in love with the breed . We will try not to be too blinkered and definitely will have our instructor give the green light before we make a decision . She has taught my daughter since she was around 7 so knows her capabilities
Hoping to view a 9yo ISH this week also ... not keen on mares but not discounting her just yet !

Agree with what others have said, sounds like you and she are ready - it will be a challenge of course but if you persevere it is so worth it. I think the most important things to get right are choosing the right yard and right horse - DIY livery fine if that's what you want but there's DIY and DIY - there's the kind where you are very much on your own and liveries don't really get involved with one another, and there's the kind where extra help is available to buy in as and when, and advice/support is there when you need it - even as a rider and owner on and off for 25 years +, I really value and need other people's eyes/experience - does my horse look sound, my horse has done this weird thing what does it mean, how do I get her to stop doing ABC, I can't get her to do XYZ, OMG it's bleeding what do I do etc. - lessons are a must as well of course but having a friendly person around for those day to day/immediate things that can't really wait til the next time you see your instructor is crucial esp in those nervous early days IMO. Also finding a yard which is friendly and has things going on (lessons, PC, clinics, friendly comps, hacking) for your DD will really help her enjoyment...

The other crucial thing as others have said is the right horse - won't repeat what others have said but it is so so easy to accidentally over-horse yourself - 100 times better to buy a horse which is a little easier/quieter/lower level than you think you need and pep them up, than try and manage something which is too hot. Pretty much any horse will do a novice/elementary level dressage test or pop around an 80-90cm SJ or XC course with correct training and riding, which is pretty much the max that 90% of DC will want/need to do competetively, so no need to let a seller talk you into buying something otherwise unsuitable on the grounds of 'competition potential'. Plus a steady reliable schoolmaster type will always find a home very easily if you do want to upgrade to something more high powered a few years down the line whereas a blood/competition horse that isn't a novice ride will always be tricky. Ex racers can be brilliant so not totally writing them off but a 5 year old recently re-trained one rings a few alarm bells as a first horse for a 13yo- I think as it's your DDs first horse you really want something that can show her the ropes a bit more and that has done all PC/RC activities before. Even something a little older wouldn't be a bad call, a teenage horse will still have plenty of years left in them and so long as they are sound would be more of a safe bet than something young and unproven?

Whatever horse you buy make sure you get it vetted by a recommended vet but definitely not the owners. Make sure the owner rides it before your daughter gets on. Make sure your daughter hacks it on her own. Check for any signs that it has been ridden/lunged before you arrive ie sweat marks however slight.
I'd be really cautious about an ex racer however well they've been reschooled, they can be absolute money pits to keep sound.

The other thing to consider is whether your daughter will want to compete. We naively purchased a 15’2 ISH mare, which meant that for BS DD had to go into adult classes rather than with other 12 year olds. It was fine as the adults took her under their wings and helped and encouraged her. Once she started winning, some of them were not so helpful! Riding club she was also straight in with adults - pony club they all went in together based on rider ability regardless of whether horse or pony.

I would not recommend an ex-racer for an inexperienced owner. It's not just about the riding/retraining, but also about the problems they often have. TBs are a pretty health problem prone breed anyway, and the way they are backed/kept in racing can often lead to problems like ulcers/kissing spines etc, which may not be apparent straight away.

Personally, I'd look for a TBxnative or similar who has been there and done the job you want it to do, rather than looking at a 5yo ex-racer. Set yourselves up for success!

At the moment, to afford anything safe/sensible you will need a mid-4 figures budget unless you get very, very lucky. However if you're able to wait a bit longer, it's very likely the market will calm down and you will find something suitable at a more reasonable price.

Can I ask what budget you have in mind to buy?

How are you doing OP?

@Mysa74 thank you for asking and thanks to everyone for all the advice , I have been listening and taking notes .
We went to see a gorgeous ex racer who had been re trained . He was amazing in all ways , really quiet and responsive , totally bombproof ( passed a huge milk lorry on a small narrow lane , and a massive tractor - he didn't bat an eyelid ) . Long story short , he had an old injury that according to the vet had healed . I got it checked out and did some research and it appeared at his last race , the stewards report said he was lame. It turned out to be a pastern fracture , I got the x rays and got my vet to check it out and he was very concerned about the suspensory ligament damage and said that he would not buy him. We would not be the right home for him and I would constantly be worried - plus the insurance would not cover any vets bills relating to that injury. Since then I have been very careful about who we are viewing , TBs but not straight OTT, don't mind paying more for some work to have been done on them. Also looking at ISH types . Happy to wait for the right horse - this isn't something to be rushed .
Let's hope something good comes my way . We have 2 more viewings over the next week , one is an older TB but never been raced and the other a 9yo ISH - but the guy is very slow getting back to me . Wish me luck !!
My budget isn't huge - 2.5K , don't mind having to put the work in as long as it's not dangerous

Good decision on the TB! At the moment I’m afraid that your budget is going to be a be problem as a 9 year old ISH going for that sort of money WILL have something wrong with them, either physically or behaviourally. There are obviously TBs within your budget but they often come with their own problems as you’ve already discovered. You might be able to get a Welsh cob - some of them can be very athletic and are great jumpers and they’re not as fashionable as ISH so tend to be a bit cheaper for a very similar horse.

Agree with @Pleasedontdothat that budget is very very tight in the current market. straight from that track TBs seem to be easily making £2k at the moment, I would be very sceptical of ISH/nice LW cobs etc that are coming up at that budget.

If it sounds too good to be true it probably is...

It may be worth saving up for another year and then buying.

Agree that that budget will make things difficult. We just bought a 7 year old 17hh ISH, he’s hunted so had lots of exposure to things but not particularly well schooled ie doesn’t bend too well, not very refined so needs work.. he cost £7500, a year ago he’d likely have been `£4-5k max..

At that kind of budget I think realistically you are looking at taking a gamble one way or another, either a youngster that you are going to have to put a lot of time and effort (and money!) into yourself, or an older horse that is more likely than not to have some soundness/health issues... Ofc gambles can pay off, and of the two I'd def go for the older horse rather than the younger in your circumstances, you might find a nice teenage horse that's been round the block a bit and perhaps has some blemishes or quirks in your price bracket, but I think then expecting to fly a 5 stage and be able to get full insurance cover and total peace of mind as well is too much to hope for - you're probably more looking at keeping a good vets bill contingency fund, accepting some exclusions on the insurance and hoping to have a good 2-5 years with him/her before retirement if that's the road you go down.

Not saying you did the wrong thing at all walking away from the TB, not at all, and like the others say there's always the option to wait and save more if you want a 'made' horse. If you save all the money you would have put into livery for the next 6 months you'll have a healthier budget come spring, but horses of the type you describe - 7-12yo, Irish or cob type, 15-16hh, not a world beater but safe, sensible, good to hack, sound are going for really silly money right now because it's what everyone wants. Someone on my yard paid heading towards £10k a few weeks ago for a very pretty welsh cob mare, 5yo and hadn't done much (that to add insult to injury went lame the first week she had her) . Hopefully you won't have such bad luck and hopefully the market will settle again over winter, but do be really super cautious of anything within your price range which doesn't have some obvious upfront drawbacks as you really don't want to find out the hard way what the 'catch' is!

2.5k budget, like others have said, you're taking a gamble.

What's kind of horse are you looking for. I've always owned cobs (and loaned TBs etc) and a reliable, bomb proof safe cob you can double/triple that budget.

I don't want to put you off however as you can spend thousands on a "great" horse that looks the dream but has issues that come out with a less than confident owner.

My boy was £300 and sold as a rearer. I'm now riding him out and he's a dream boat but he was always a nice natured boy. I believe horse ownership isn't about just riding out etc but forming a proper bond that takes time and patience. I'm 6 months in daily training and this was after turning him away with my mare for 2 years (he was 2.5 when I got him) I had my mare for 12 years and she was also fantastic and ex riding school. The first 2 years I had her weren't fun so much. Ex riding school horses out of the riding school that find their freedom are something else 😂. Anyway here's a pic of my nearly 5 yr old

@TiddyTid I like what you have said and it gives me hope . I have been around horses long enough to know that I'm not going to get the unicorn I'm looking for in the budget I have , so am more than prepared to make sacrifices . It's a question of that those are , for me Tiddy has knocked the nail on the head - got a pony that wasn't perfect but worked on their bond , trust etc and was prepared to put the work in . That's exactly what we want - we are prepared to have lessons and put the ground work in , not expecting at all to just walk straight into a well schooled horse with no behavioural quirks .

For me one of the things I could not sacrifice was taking a horse that had an injury , and assuming they were sound to ride ( as the seller and sellers vet said ) , but then adding to that injury and who knows where that could lead . I don't have the heart for that . I still feel like he was the right horse for us , just wish that old injury wasn't there !!!
I respectfully thank you all for your comments , but you have put me off and I have stopped looking now . I know that wasn't your intentions , so please don't think I'm being goady or one of those posters who doesn't like the advice so gets in a strop!! just feel the only feedback has been quite negative and making me re think what I'm doing here

So @TiddyTid forgot to add - your boy is a little stunner !!!

OP I don’t think anyone was trying to piss on your chips, just some people who are knowledgeable and familiar with the market sharing their knowledge and raising valid points.

@lastqueenofscotland thanks and I totally agree , and genuinely thank people for their valued contributions. I am just having a crisis of confidence really