Outgrowing a horse ability-wise? WWYD?

[Pleasedontdothat]

DD’s horse is absolutely lovely - he’s got a fantastic temperament and in the not quite two years that she’s had him they’ve come on in leaps and bounds.

He’s not really built for dressage (IDxTB but definitely taking more after the ID side) although he’s picked up lateral work really well but realistically he’s never going to get more than mid 60s scores and neither of them enjoys dressage competitions.

They both love jumping but his sweet spot is 90-110 and ideally dd would want to compete a lot higher. Her instructor has started muttering about dd outgrowing him as far as ability goes but she adores him and would never want to sell and we simply can’t afford to keep two.

What should she do? Harden her heart and sell him or loan him out (our local PC loves him so we wouldn’t have any problems finding him a new home), or keep building their partnership and accept that she won’t achieve her ambitions with this horse? He’s just turned 11 so has plenty of competitive years left in him.

What would your dd like to do? I'm not sure it's a question of what she should do.

Could a third option be that she keeps her horse for hacking, etc., and finds a local schoolmaster to part loan and compete on? There are a couple round here that are 15+ years but amazing jumpers so their owners are looking to part loan them to young riders who really know their stuff and want to improve.

How old is she?

I’d think about looking at other horses if this, lovely sounding, horse is not enough. See how she clicks with more athletic, sporty types. See if she gets inspired and wants to move on.

Re loaning, whilst I’ve had some lovely loaners I’ve also had some iffy ones and he’s likely to come home if ever ill or when he gets elderly. So I’d look to sell him. It’s not a bad thing for a child to learn sometimes you have to make a choice.

Id sell him and look for another one. Like someone said, if something goes wrong when he's on loan he comes back to you.

She’s 17 - and completely torn ..

It’s unlikely she’ll be going to university any time soon - she’s looking at apprenticeships/working pupil placements at competition yards after her A-levels

I haven’t worked on a high end competition yard for decades, but when I did lots of working pupils were told they needed a higher calibre horse if they wanted to learn and progress. If she’s really serious about it, perhaps have another year playing about with current horse while she finishes school and concentrate on A levels, then get serious next year.

Has she had a few sits on some sharper, sportier types? Is she sure she enjoys riding them, if so and it would be easy to loan out then I’d probably go down that route

I agree ^ lastqueen . And sorry to immediately go to the distasteful subject of money, but even if you are lucky enough to have the substantially into 5 figures budget to buy a 'school-master' it's going to be quite a high power ride and not necessarily a point and go confidence builder so she needs to be sure she will enjoy riding that kind of horse. I don't mean a beginners bombproof plod kind of schoolmaster (she's clearly past needing that), but more the competitive amateur's schoolmaster who will take her around her first BE Novice or BS Foxhunter, i.e. the horse who is not only talented enough to jump the height with ease, but also kind/brave enough to still go if not presented perfectly at every fence and hand-held around the whole course pro-rider style - that type of horse is not necessarily a saint or 'easy ride' in most people's books! The dressage schoolmaster at our yard who is schooled up to Intermediate and described as 'push-button' by his owner will dump you in a heartbeat if the buttons you push are the wrong ones! I have been that dumpee and it wasn't much fun

And actually unless you have £15k+ going spare, and particularly if you were thinking to loan her current boy out rather than sell (so you won't have the money from the sale to put towards next horse), you may need to look at buying something which isn't a perfect schoolmaster and which has 'quirks', i.e. perhaps not great to hack, not great on the ground, or particularly hot/strong (or broken down/unsound, but I wouldn't advise that!) - that might be absolutely fine for her and just a case of finding the right match of course (e.g. some people are fine with nappy but hate hot/strong, others are vice versa!). But if her current boy is lovely and easy in every way she may find she misses just being able to hack around with her friends or pop out to a fun ride or whatever without drama.

Or of course the other way to get a high powered competition horse for less money is to buy a youngster bred for the job and bring them through the ranks yourself, which could be a great long-term project for her if she's prepared to be patient and put in the work. She would need a lot of help from instructors etc to bring on her first ever youngster but I assume she'd be having lessons regularly in any case?

But overall I'd be a bit concerned whether a time in her life when she might have a lot else going on with applying for college, first job etc., is now the time to take on such a big commitment? And I know from my own experience with teenagers that sometimes the bigger the commitment/investment the more anxious and/or ambivalent they can get about it so I would wonder how she'd feel about knowing you've spent such an enormous amount of money into buying her a competition horse, would that spur her on or put her off more do you think?

Ultimately she's an incredibly lucky girl to have a horse of her own at her age at all, and her current boy sounds lovely. If he is able to comfortably jump 1.10m ish (is that a single fence or course, SJ or XC?), it's not as though she can't compete at all or is limited to kiddy classes or clear rounds, it sounds as though she could aim to do a BE100 or BS Disco grassroots championship series, which is a pretty good level for an amateur on their first horse (many wouldn't ever go higher!). She could look into doing local leagues and pro rider clinics so she's more honing her competitiveness at that level, doing more technical fences, being more effective as a rider etc., rather than just progressing up the height levels per se. And she could then work towards earning enough money herself to afford her next horse in a few years (perhaps still with a little help from Mum!)...?

Thanks - lots of food for thought.

We had a lovely day with dhorse yesterday - I took them out to a XC course for a lesson with one of her regular instructors who’s a pro eventer. They both had a blast, flying round the Novice fences. There were quite a few other horses there many of which were barely under control, there were lots of battles in the car park with horses not wanting to load, whereas ours just trots onto the trailer and travels like a dream, so I think we’ll probably keep current lovely horse at least until she finishes her A-levels and then rethink.

She has ridden ‘competition’ horses before and loves the sheer athleticism, but she would definitely go down the bringing along a youngster route rather than buying a ready-made horse as part of what she loves is the training.

I appreciate what you say @maxelly about anxiety because of perceived pressure and she’s certainly seen that happen with a couple of her friends who’ve been bought very expensive horses and then feel they have to perform so it’s something to watch out for

If she’s going to go off as a working pupil she might even be better going with no horse and getting used to various different competition horses before deciding.

If she is planning on going as a WP (make sure she is on a really good yard - some yards are awful as WP) I would hang fire. She'll pick up experience and explore ability there, plus she'll have something nice to keep developing her relationship with.
As good as she may be, it is an entirely different experience riding competition horses and they don't come cheap.
Is she looking to event or SJ? She can compete at lower levels for a while to gain experience and the horse might surprise you! My old boss bought a horse to do pre- novice on and he took her to badminton.

Update on this - still not sure what to do .... sadly DD’s horse has had some medical issues. He had his first ever episode of asthma in July/August, and was just finishing coming back into work when dd noticed he was lacking his usual impulsion - knocked a pole in an UA 1m class which was unlike him and not collecting properly. We had saddle checked, physio out who said there were sore areas in his back but suspected the cause was his right hind leg. Vet couldn’t see anything obviously wrong but put him on a bute trial - he was 95% ok on bute so vet cleared him to do pony club B test. They passed the test but while the examiner was very positive and encouraging about DD’s riding, he was very clear that lovely as dhorse is he needs to step down a level, and definitely not try to get him to step up.

So.... once we’ve got whatever’s going on with him sorted (vet is out today doing nerve blocks), we need to make a decision. DD’s instructor is steering her towards BE100/novice schoolmasters but they don’t come cheap so would mean we’d have to sell lovely horse. Dd would love to get a youngster but instructor is adamant that what she needs right now is higher level competition experience which she’s not going to get from a youngster. We are fortunately in a position where we can spend around £15k but really don’t want to go higher - and this would be a one-off ... we couldn’t keep getting new horses . Am I mad to even consider this?

Is there anyway she could get a weekend job working on a yard? Might be a way to get her riding fix without you paying out such a large sum for what, one year? She will also need to dedicate time to her A levels so might not be the time to buy a horse which she would need to build a bond with. Also such an certain time with Covid meaning there may not actually be that many competitions to attend, especially if we go back into lockdown. Sorry to sound negative but I guess it depends how much of a sacrifice that 15k would be.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't have done Novice on him?

Fair enough, now he's a bit broken, but the description of him sounds like he'd have gone BE Novice. What level is she competing at now?

A BE100 / Novice schoolmaster will probably cost you about 20k atm!

I'm sorry to hear his problems are ongoing Please, I'm going through similar myself and it's no fun

It's a really tricky one as to what to do, if going out as a working pupil next year is her aim, she might be better off not having her own horse, plenty of yards will take you with your own of course (some will charge you livery/deduct from already pitiful wages for keep) but as far as I know she'll have more/better options without that being a constraint (admittedly my knowledge is decades out of date here so I may be totally wrong), if she can get onto a good yard she should get plenty of experience that way and it may be better to save the money to invest in a really nice youngster or even 2 when she's more established...

Perhaps an absolute ideal would be a lease of a schoolmaster/competition horse for a year so she has something to ride this year but isn't tied down in long term - but I have no idea how much such a thing would cost (a lot, I guess!), but it might mean you could keep DHorse, perhaps loan him out for a year or give him some downtime at grass which can only do him good (I'm considering sending my broken one off for 6 months retirement/grass livery in a last ditch attempt to get her to come hacking sound at least). I think I would probably be with your instructor that the timing may not be right to get a youngster now, but if the lease is not an option then the next best probably is to at least look at/try the horses your instructor is recommending, see how she feels when it's a concrete option rather than a hypothetical?

I'd just be a bit cautious of an instructor pushing you to buy a new horse, particularly if they have one to sell you.

You have only had dhorse for two years. It sounds like he has a lot to give another rider. I think if you're trying to go above his capabilities, it isn't fair on either of them. So I'd be inclined to sell.

He can score 65 in dressage (and you say your dd doesn't enjoy dressage so probably has more to give), compete st 1.10 sj and jump novice xc and got your dd through her B test. I'd buy him!

If your DD is planning to work on a competition yard after her A levels I would hold off buying her a new horse. Depending on the yard / discipline she may find she’s riding a lot snd wouldn’t have time for her own. I ‘inherited’ a lovely horse from one of my DCs when they found B owning / competing their own horse didn’t fit in with working with high level competition horses.

What level is she competing at now? If she's doing BE100 and he's not completing, or having lots of poles then yes, move on. If she's not gone BE then she'll need to before anyone will lease her a Novice schoolmaster. It very much depends on where she is now.

She was planning to affiliate this summer but his injury/illness put paid to that.. she’s done novice dressage and unaffiliated 90s/100s. He was schooling at 110 SJ and mix of 100/novice fences XC. Dd doesn’t enjoy competing at dressage but she really likes schooling - she’s taught him lovely lateral work, flying changes, starting half pass. He’s not the most confident horse XC - he needs to have schooled somewhere several times otherwise he’s likely to have a stop somewhere - if dd doesn’t set him up absolutely perfectly he’s likely to go nah, don’t fancy that today, he’s not very forgiving!

His issues now mean he needs to drop back down to 80s/90s, lower level hunter trials, fun rides, hacking etc

Her instructor isn’t trying to sell her a horse, just telling her what she needs at this point to develop as a rider. We looked into leasing but it’s prohibitively expensive and she’s not got enough experience to be offered the ride on a competition horse. It’s very frustrating for her as she’s watching her friends from PC move onto competitive horses and she feels like she’s marking time.

We need to get dhorse sorted first before making any decisions anyway and get through another lockdown

Obviously wait and see what the issue is and if hes insured id go straight for x rays and bone scans.

They passed the test but while the examiner was very positive and encouraging about DD’s riding, he was very clear that lovely as dhorse is he needs to step down a level, and definitely not try to get him to step up

Why did she say this? Because he looks stiff and lame? in which case they should NOT have let her do the test on him or because she doesn't believe in his ability (which seems a bit mean as his sj and flatwork sounds nice and he's only 11, perhaps the constant setting up for xc confuses him, with xc they need to be able to set and go)

If he comes right I'd affiliate and do BE90 on him, if he goes double clear a few times thats another 5k on his asking price!!

@Noideawottodo the vet came out to do nerve blocks last night and as soon as the first one in his hock took effect he was back to his normal ebullience - the vet got called off to an emergency so didn’t have time to do X-rays so they’re happening this week (thankfully he is insured). Vet thinks most likely cause is hock arthritis but we’ll know more once the X-rays are done.

The assessor at B test said his conformation means he doesn’t have a good enough canter to set him up properly for bigger heights and he’s trying his heart out now but he’s really much better suited for lower level stuff. He wasn’t stiff and lame during the test - our vet wouldn’t have cleared him to do it if he was.

The assessor at B test said his conformation means he doesn’t have a good enough canter to set him up properly for bigger heights and he’s trying his heart out now but he’s really much better suited for lower level stuff

But he'd been jumping clear round 100? Sorry I think that sounds unlikely.

Maybe he wont make a 2* horse but to be frank your dd hasn't even done a BE90! Surely if you get his hocks done she could have a nice couple of years on him going up the lower levels.

I love pony club and my children have learnt loads and had so much fun. The downside is for some reason the pony club environment seems to breed adults who think a lot of their opinion and voice it freely even when not asked. I always listen, thank them but take everything with a piece of salt. I bought a pony a couple of years ago despite being told it was a brilliant pony but totally unsuitable for my child. Best pony we’ve ever had the pleasure to own and it give me chills to think if I’d listened to the ‘expert’ we’d have missed out.