Livery etiquette

[ShSpecialFriends]

My daughter is a super-keen rider, and we've been part-loaning a pony for about 2 years, but we're starting to think about buying our own.
I didn't grow up with horses, so can I just ask some beginner questions please?
We're looking for livery, maybe at a riding school... What sort of things should I ask? What kind of things should I expect to be included?

I have another slightly random q... At one of the yards we looked at, they've lost 2 horses over the last 3 years to "field accidents". Is that a worrying amount, or par for the course? (I think they have about 20-30 horses there)

Thanks for your help!

I would be worried about the field accidents. Are they all turned out in a herd?

What do you want from livery, stabled at night, individual turnout, proper school, lessons (jumping/dressage), someone schooling the horse for you, good off road hacking?

The prices vary enormously, depending on where you live and what facilities the yard offers and how you want the horse kept.

The main issues with being a livery at a RS is access to arenas. How busy are they with lessons, are there set times for livery access and then how many liveries are going to pile in?

I would want details onto what happened with the field accidents and what has been done since to avoid happening again

I’ve been a horse owner for 40 yrs and I’ve only known one horse who had to be pts as a result of an injury in a field , although I did own a mare who had so many small accidents overnight that we ended up stabling her at night all year round forever . A riding school would probably be ideal as you are inexperienced but I wouldn’t personally have a horse / pony on working livery ( where they use it in the school for a reduction in price of livery) and you do need to check what access your child would have to the arenas etc at the times you would want to ride . Different types of livery include different things , depends how much you want to pay / how much you want to do yourself . We currently only have one retired pony ( was my children’s) and she’s on full livery so I don’t have to do anything but that £120 per week .

I wouldn’t want to livery on a riding school, clients often have priority over the schools. My horse isn’t suitable for working livery but if he was I wouldn’t want him being used for lessons.
I’ve known one horse have to be pts due to a field accident. 2 in 3 years is really high

I wouldn’t want to be on a livery in a riding school, busy allll weekend, potential for a bit of mean greed eyed jealousy from other children who want their own pony, limited access to schools.

Have a look on line for yards in your area, or local area FB pages. And have a chat with the owner, be frank about your and your daughters experience, they will recommend the best package and go from there.

I've had 2 liveries in riding schools, that came from rs originally and they are fab ponies and they got a lot of use. Up to 5 hours 2 x a week and probably used 5 days a week. Ours are both 15hh ish so got used by adults and children. The positive was they were kept in a herd.

Now 3 years on they've redeveloped a SOH and life behind the eyes. It's a tough job for a pony.

We were on livery at a riding school for a while and I wouldn’t do it again.

You couldn’t get near the arena - every evening until about 7 there were lessons, again all weekend there were lessons, or pony parties or pony days. All school holidays there were activities most days. When the school was free for liveries to use, there was a mad rush as everyone wanted to use it. The hacking in the area wasn’t great so DD was only getting to ride her own pony a couple of times a week

As for field injuries - I’ve known of 1 who has sadly been PTS after a field accident.

Although, saying that, our retiree is a bloody nightmare for injuring herself. She’s cut her leg quite badly on something, we’ve been and walked her field over and over but can’t find anything that she could have done it on

The 20-30 horses - are they all turned out in one herd? We have about 30 horses at our yard but they’re all across several smaller fields, max of 4 in any one field.

It really depends what you want and can do. We’re on DIY - we have a stable, huge field that our 2 share with a friend’s 2, hay is included but bedding isn’t, lockable tack room and plenty of storage. We pay someone to sort them in the mornings (ours are out at night and in during the day at the moment so he brings in and gives them breakfast) and we go up in the evenings for DD to ride, muck out, groom, poo pick, etc. Works pretty well for us

I have kept mine at a riding school for 10 years and we've always been very happy. It's probably one of the more expensive yards in our area but you get what you pay for... if you are inexperienced I would caution against DIY. A yard manager/ owner with years of experience is worth their weight in gold, as is the option to put the horse on full livery if you're ill, on holiday etc... Another pro in your position is access to lessons onsite and help and guidance with your new pony. There may also be opportunities for onsite shows, camps etc... this will give your DD a taste for these things without the need to travel.

I agree with PP that a serious downside to riding schools is access to arenas. I'm lucky there are three at my yard so one is always free. Definitely ask the arrangements for accessing facilities as a livery.

The field accidents would concern me. Horses do get injured in fields but that is extreme. I've been around horses for 30+ years and can count on one hand the number I know that have been badly/ fatally injured in fields.

I do think it depends on the riding school . Many years ago we kept ours on full livery at a riding school but the full livery end was separate from the riding school end and we had access to 3 arenas so there was usually one free . I do think you can get issues being inexperienced on any livery yard as they are generally full of people who want to ‘share their knowledge’ and have an opinion and some of the opinions are not worth having .

I've liveried at a large riding school for years and am very happy although it probably wouldn't suit everyone - the pluses are great facilities, easy access to lessons and clinics, competitions on site, lots of people around all the time so very social and always someone available to lend a hand and give unasked for advice or as a hacking or competition buddy. The minuses are that it is relatively expensive, busy and noisy at all times of day (great for de-spooking your horse, not so great if you have a stressy one!), loads of not-always-well-trained children and dogs underfoot, can be cliquey and gossipy, your stuff is never safe unless under lock and key. School access is a perennial issue, we have 2 very large arenas plus 2 smaller ones that can be used for lunging etc, but you'd struggle to find somewhere to ride in the weekend day time (pre corona of course!) as there will be anywhere up to 7 or 8 lessons going on at once and they take priority. Not a problem for me as I ride at less busy times or hack out anyway but would get very annoying if that's your only real riding time of the week.

Questions I'd ask would be the same as at any livery yard, e.g. what are the yard 'rules', 'opening hours', security measures, does anyone live on site, emergency procedures, are children allowed unsupervised on the yard and if so from what age, what facilities they have (jumps, hacking etc) and any restrictions on using them. Does the farrier, dentist, physio visit on a regular schedule and what are payment arrangements for that. What storage do you get as a livery and is it secure (e.g. space in locked tack room, lockers etc).

I'd want to know what is included on their full livery package (or part or working livery if that's your plan) and what do you have to pay extra for, common 'extras' include riding or exercising pony if you can't make it to the yard, tack cleaning, bringing in and holding pony for vet/farrier/dentist, medicines and supplements, tack cleaning, clipping, grooming. Usually everything else is included ie basic feed, bedding, hay, mucking out, bringing in/turning out, care and maintenance of the fields - but worth checking so you can be sure you are comparing like with like price-wise.

My number 1 question for any yard would be about turnout, how much can they guarantee especially over winter as this is so important for horses' wellbeing, 24/7/365 is the gold standard but a lot of yards will insist ponies are brought in overnight in winter to save the fields from poaching. I'd want to know if there is any reduction in livery charges if pony does live out 24/7 all year round. The 2 field accidents could just be bad luck but I'd want to know what their procedures are for managing herd dynamics and also I'd want to see that the fields are well maintained, fences and gates are in good repair and any hazards e.g. ditches fenced off.

In general (and I know it's hard to tell) I'd try and go with the yard that gives you the best vibe, not necessarily the biggest, smartest or cheapest. As you are not horsey yourself you are going to be placing a lot of trust and giving a lot of money to the yard you choose and you want them to be friendly, knowledgeable, caring people who are going to alert you to any issues asap and welcome you and your DD coming to them with questions and for help, not the sort who treat clients as a nuisance who should be seen-and-not-heard or worse just sources of £££. You really want the yard to be a happy place for you and DD as horse ownership comes with enough hassle and stress as it is without adding any unhelpful yard dynamics into the mix!

Thank you all, that's really useful food for thought!

We’re 18 months into our horse-owning journey so not super-experienced by any means but DD’s had a weekend job at her old riding school for the last 4 years so she’s very competent at all the basic yard duties. We moved yards in the autumn as there were too many horses in the fields at the old yard plus the hacking was rubbish. The new yard offers either full livery or assisted DIY - we opted for assisted DIY as dd can be quite precious about the care her horse gets but juggling going up twice a day with work and school is too tricky normally. (However for the last few weeks we’ve been virtually living there as he’s recovering from a field injury).

When we were looking for a new yard there were certain things which were important to us:

1. All year turnout in single sex herds
2. Not too many horses in each field
3. Assistance offered
4. Good facilities (all-weather arena, set of jumps, jumping paddock for summer, hot wash)
5. Good hacking
6. Outside instructors allowed on yard
7. Clinics etc held on yard
8. Trailer/horse box parking
9. Other teenagers riding at the same sort of standard as dd

10. Easy to get to

The last one was very important - not all yards are that welcoming to teenagers/children.

DD’s old riding school does offer livery but we didn’t even consider it as the turnout and hacking are rubbish and it’s eye-wateringly expensive. However some of DD’s friends are keeping their horses there as they feel the hand-holding for new horse owners is worth putting up with the downsides, at least for a few months

The field accident thing jumps out as a red flag to me. For context, I used to work at a yard of a similar size with the horses turned out in large herds and in the 15 years I've known them, they've had one horse lost due to what might be considered a "field accident" but that was a really freak thing that IMO couldn't have been predicted or prevented.

I've been around horses since I was a child and I can think of one other that had to be put down after injuring itself in the field.

Sometimes people can just be unlucky but I'd want to know details and 2 in 3 years does seem on the face of it like a lot.

As first time owners you want a yard that will be helpful and supportive - a riding school can be good for this, but as others have said, they have downsides too. You want one where livery is a big part of the business, not an add on, if you do go for this option!