Should I buy an older horse?

[fluffysocksgoodbookwine]

It would be very helpful to talk through this situation, and to hear from anyone else who's bought an older horse.

I've been part-loaning an 18yr old (nearly 19) thoroughbred mare, 3 days per week for the past 9 months. I'm the only person riding her regularly, the owner hasn't ridden at all in the past 2 years, although a friend of hers rides every couple of weeks or so.

She's a lovely mare, and we get on well. She's come on a lot with regular work, hacking and schooling, put on a lot of condition, and moving much better, doing some lateral work etc. We don't have transport, so I haven't done anything else with her, although she's done cross country/ fun rides in the past. She hurdled as a youngster, and retired from point to pointing aged 11, so has had a hard paper round as a younger horse, but since then has basically been a happy hacker. She's sound, even though her legs are not pretty, and has been in good health during the time I've loaned her.

I was quite happy with 3 days per week, but the owner is now planning to sell her, and is giving up horses completely, due to a change in circumstances. I'm trying to decide whether to buy her myself, or let her go, and take on another part-loan (I've had several offers at the current livery yard).

I had my own horses as a teenager, and gave up when I left home for Uni, so I do know what it's like to have full responsibility.
We can afford to buy/run a horse, all that would change is that we would pay the mortgage off more slowly (overpaying considerably at present), but it would be a lot more than I'm paying for the part-loan, as I would need part-livery 2 days a week due to work. DS age 10 rides at a riding school weekly, and has ridden this mare in the school, but she's not really a novice ride (spooky and quite strong), so it would be a few years yet before he could hack her out.

If she isn't sold in the next 2-3 months, I think the owner will likely rough her off over the summer with a view to grass livery retirement. Owner says she wants a 5* forever home for her, but I think she'll be tricky to sell. I've become very fond of her, but wouldn't chose to buy an 18yr old horse if I didn't know her.

If I bought her, I would want to be able to do occasional local cross country schooling days/ beach rides/ fun rides, perhaps a little low level hunter trialling. She jumps well and loves it!

My concern is that I could buy her, then have to retire her within a couple of years and end up with an expensive field ornament, having not really had the enjoyment from her. If I could get 5-6 years more riding with her, then I'd be quite happy for her to retire to grass livery for as long as she was enjoying life. She has lived out before and been quite happy apparently.

Does anyone have an ex-racehorse who has kept working into their mid-20's? Is this a reasonable expectation, or is she unlikely to have that much in her legs? Would a vetting help with this question (I would have her vetted anyway)? Anyone bought an older horse and regretted it?
What else do I need to think about?

I don't want to discuss this with friends at the yard just yet, as I don't want the owner to know that I'm considering this until I'm further along the decision making process.

TIA

As somebody who owns a 29 year old welsh pony who stills hacks out and is ridden I would say go for it.

When we bought him we were told he was 17 and he was a first pony, well behaved and looked after my daughter. Then after we had him a year we found out he was actually older and was 24. We've had him 5 years and I would do it again in a heartbeat !

He's amazing and a massive part of our family and we treasure every single day with him. He acts like a 4 year old most of the time - and I'm pretty sure he doesn't plan on going anywhere for a while. He's out showing this year with my daughter and they will have a blast together.

To be honest no. In my experience horses retire from proper work around 18-20. They may potter around for a couple more years on gentle hacks, but I have never heard of a horse doing the things you want to be doing at 25. Instead some horses will not live long past 25.

She may turn out to be the exception that proves the rule. She may keep going for another 7 years, who knows? But if she doesn't, can you afford to retire her?

By the way the owner is very irresponsible selling her at that age. Why isn't he the 5* home his horse deserves for her old age? (I say this as I look out of my window at my two 18 year olds and my 21 year old eating, pooing and coming up with new ways to incur vet fees!)

Also, I would add that there is a big difference in life expectancy between ponies and horses. While ponies may make it to 35-40, horses are more realistically around the 25-30 range.

To be honest, no.

My DD’s 1st pony was 17 when we took her on - she had part shared her for a year or so when we were offered her.

She was the perfect first pony - gentle, kind, easy to handle, etc.

She was fine for the first year then went lame and we discovered arthritis. We treated it and pony was fine with hacking, DD took her to shows and stuff like that but she was never really sound again so we retired her

She’s now 20 and a companion for DD’s pony. I love her dearly and she has a home for life with us. She was absolutely perfect for us at the time but she was never really up for the cross country/bloodhounds/galloping along a beach kind of stuff.

A few people I know have oldies - 25+ and most are retired, with the odd hack down the lane and some in hand showing

Yes, I know a few welshies still cracking on in their mid-late 20’s, he’s gorgeous @Tashalburrows! In my limited experience of thoroughbreds, I don’t know of any still ridden after 25, and several retired well before then. And she was in training from 2-11, so has worked hard and at high risk of arthritis.

@Booboostwo, I know the owner planned to keep her for life, and that’s what I was told when I took her on, but the owner’s financial and family circumstances have changed such that they can’t keep her on at current livery costs. I don’t know if they would be able to consider grass livery retirement for her now.
I could afford to retire her when the time came, but then would not be able to get another horse, so would be back to part loaning. My fear is that I would have the same experience as @Songofsixpence, and have to retire her in the near future, as I would have spent a lot of money for little benefit in terms of riding.

I guess if the owner was willing to retire her rather than sell, I could potentially offer to have her on full loan for as long as she remains sound/ happy ridden, then when she needs to slow down she could go back to them to retire.
It sounds as though buying her would be a heart over head decision, which is what I suspected .

@Booboostwo really? I was still schooling at medium on a 22yo and regularly riding 10-20km with her. She worked until the day she died, she didn't retire at all

And you are suggesting this is the norm ClientQueen? You were lucky with that horse. Most do not work till they die.

I guess if the owner was willing to retire her rather than sell, I could potentially offer to have her on full loan for as long as she remains sound/ happy ridden, then when she needs to slow down she could go back to them to retire.

I would ask about that. It could be that she works for another 3-4 years and by then the owner's circumstances may have changed back again. I have known thoroughbreds work into their 20s but I wouldn't jump her and I would be careful with the schooling. I would be hacking her and making sure the schooling is done for her benefit to keep her correctly muscled, rather than pushing her on further.

Essentially most horses (rather than ponies) come down the levels from their late teens, rather than going up. I would buy her but I make my decisions with my heart when it comes to horses.

tbh it's been the norm for me - my Arab x sec D mare was still going age 26 and still a cow, I lost my TB ex racer at 20 to Cushings sadly
My last mare was IDxTB and yes, I rode her the week before she died I'm just glad I wasn't on her at the time
This was about 12 weeks before she died

Def explore the loan option with her owner, sweet as she sounds the mare is barely worth anything and she is really going to struggle to find a genuine 5* home for an 18year old ex racer who isn't a novice ride, even if she gives her away for free. Cf the other recent thread on her where a poster has a much more desirable and younger horse and posters there are rightly saying she could struggle to sell... At least this way the mare has a secure future and the owner is relived of the day to day and livery costs so sounds a good option to me.

If owner isn't willing to go for a loan you could consider taking the mare on but only if she is given to you for free or buttons IMO. You might get lucky and get your 5 years fun out of her if she's well looked after, although with a TB it's by no means certain and as others have said normally they start to wind down in their teenage years rather than step up into jumping and XC (native types, arabs etc are much more hardy and can go on in hard work into their 20s but most TBs and warmbloods I know start to get at least niggly problems much sooner).

These responses confirm what I thought from past experience, that native breeds/ arabs/ cross breeds can go on a lot longer, but pure thoroughbreds/ warmbloods tend not to have as long a working life/ life expectancy.

For the past year I have been mostly hacking and doing some light schooling to balance her muscles, as @Vanhi suggested. I jumped her a little in the school last summer, and she enjoyed it, but only for the odd 20 minutes. I've enjoyed getting her fit and balanced, I like to have a project and I don't think she'd had much schooling previously, but it sounds as though she's now probably as good as she's going to get.

When I mention cost, it's not the purchase price that's the issue, as I think the owner would let me buy her at very low cost. At present I pay £20 per week and ride/do stable jobs three times a week, plus insurance this costs me about £1150 per year.

I've costed this out, and even if I got her for free/ full loan, the cost of keeping her, considering that I'd need 2 days per week of full livery to cover my long working days, would be around £5500 per year, and that's not including any vet bills that were outside of her insurance. That's a lot of money for me to be spending on a horse who I'm going to be able to do less and less with.

If I bought her, I would also be committing to keeping her in retirement, which even if she just needed grass livery, would be around £1500 per year (£15 per week plus feet trimmed regularly and vet insurance). There's no way I would then have time/money to be able a second horse for riding in addition, so would at that point be back to part-loaning for a riding horse.

I enjoyed doing local competitions and hunter trialling with my own pony/horse as a teenager, and would love to do similar again, albeit at a low level. Also, DS is loving his riding, and it would be great to have something that he could have some fun with as he gets older too. If I'm going to be devoting all of my free time, expecting family support, and paying out 5 times as much in running costs, I would like a horse that I can bring on and do things with.

I was hoping that people would respond and say they were happily working their thoroughbreds well into their 20s, but you've all confirmed what I have been thinking, that that's not a reasonable expectation. It's really hard, because I've become attached to her, put a lot of time and effort in to her, and would like to see her live out her days happy and well cared for, but as DH has said, this is not really my problem to fix.

I rode my horse hacking. Till she was 33!! I knew as soon as I retired her. She would go downhill. That's exactly why happened. We jumped still a bit. We galloped. I had the full backing of the vet.

Some horses are powerhouses. I think it's dependant on what your goal of having a horse is
Remember that the older the horse. The more likely it's going to end up expensive. Etc.

NO.
As your son is 10 and riding, I would recommend buy (or even share or full loan) something you both can ride and enjoy as soon as you buy.

Thanks all. I’m not going to buy her, but will have a chat with the owner about what the plan will be if she doesn’t sell by summer, and whether the owner will be willing to retire her in that case.

@Ariela, I’d love to get something that DS and I could share, but that would be difficult at the moment. He’s been having lessons for 18 months, on ponies from 12.2 to 15.2hh. Something 14-14.2hh would be best for him at present, otherwise he’s a bit over-horsed, unless it’s a particularly gentle horse. I’m tall with very long legs, and look a bit daft on anything under 16hh, so I think we’re a couple of years away from being able to share.

Sensible decision I think. Re you and your son sharing, lovely idea but a young-ish horse with enough pep to be ready to take an adult round a hunter trial or ODE but quiet enough for a novice child to hack out is going to cost you well north of £4000, possibly more depending on what type/breed you want, up to £5000+ potentially... If money is an issue (as I am sure it is for most of us!) but you have some time, experience and patience, you can probably buy something a little greener for much much less and bring it on yourself. Son can keep have riding lessons and do PC activities etc on a riding school pony in the meantime. I am sometimes a bit bemused/grumpy with the ridiculous market we have at the moment where perfectly useful horses but a bit older or younger/greener than ideal, with some quirks or blemishes etc are worth virtually nothing, while very average animals but that are 'ready-made' and will pop around a 80cm course and hack out sensibly go for an absolute fortune, but in your case you are well positioned to take advantage of it! Good luck!

Thanks @maxelly, you've cheered me up . I was feeling quite morose about the whole thing, but I'm feeling more positive now. I think it would help me to know whether the owner is planning to sell this mare regardless, or whether she could be retired if a good home doesn't appear. If the latter, then we can hopefully agree a cut off point in the summer, so that I can make plans for what next.

I'd love to bring on another youngster, my last one I had from 5yrs old. She'd never been off the farm she was bred on, had been broken in at 4yrs and then turned away to finish growing. I schooled her on, got her hacking out well, jumping, doing local competitions etc, and sold her aged 8 (before I went to Uni) to a professional show jumper (she was a big, athletic, warmblood X, loads of potential). I'd love to do it again, with a horse that DS and I could potentially go on to compete a bit, and I'm older, wiser, and definitely more patient these days!

Quick Update: She was sold! A good, experienced home, that ticks almost all the boxes of what I would have wanted for her. This all happened last week, and she's gone already - new owner managed to push it through before the lockdown.

Very sad to see her go, had a good cry, but have since had pics and videos from her new home, and she looks really settled.
I'm missing being at the yard, but will stay away until after the lockdown.

Definitely planning to buy a youngster once this is over! Thank you all.

If she was gifted to you i say go for it and buy a trailer get out there and do whatever you want to do!

Realistically if owner has to pay (?) retirement livery for life you are saving her a lot if she does not sell!

Who on earth is going to buy this horse at the current time?