Why are some drivers such utter tools around horses on the road?

[Springersrock]

This baffles me

Our yard is on a tiny little country lane. It’s a dead end with a farm at the end, a few houses and several other small yards along it. Lots of access to bridle ways off the lane so hardly any roadwork.

Yesterday afternoon DD had a lesson so was hacking to another yard along the lane - about 10 minutes hack away. I was following on my bike.

A delivery van comes flying along the lane, barely slowed down and passed so close DD could have touched it.

A couple of minutes later he came back the other way, this time he did slow down - but only so he could shout abuse at DD and I before he sped off again.

He obviously wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer - he was in a sign written van so I’ve phoned the delivery company and complained

This isn’t the first time she’s encountered behaviour like this and, sadly, I’m sure it won’t be the last, but why on earth do people behave like this?

I cycle a lot and while I have been subjected to some pretty stupid drivers, I’ve never encountered anywhere near the level of aggression and hatred that seems to be directed towards horse riders.

Non horsey person here (this showed up on 'Active Threads'). Perhaps its because people get cycling. They can cycle themselves, and possibly do (or their kids do). But with horse riding it has a perception of being something for the wealthy?

I know not all horse riders are wealthy, but you certainly can't be 'poor' and be a horse rider. There are time and costs involved with it. I can't imagine many delivery drivers choosing this as a way of earning loads of money.

Having said that, I love horses (from a distance!) and always slow right down for them. You horseriders sit so high up, how do you not get vertigo?!

Because these cretins will be the same around anyone who they perceive as smaller, less important or whatever "less" than them in their mighty car/van.

They can get away with their bullying because the majority placidly accept that motorised vehicles are dangerous/polluting/taking over, oh well, move on, nothing to see here, nothing we can do about it. The onus is on horses, bikes, pedestrians etc to make alternative arrangements.

In my town, they have spent money we don't have on an entire off road pathway because the actual footpath was full of parked cars. Didn't address the problem, just shoved the rightful users elsewhere. It is just accepted that "cars will be cars", as it were.

( ^ said as someone who drives thousands more miles - in a diesel car - than she rides, so it's not like I am the stereotypical ecowarrior! But also happy to say my car driving skills and understanding has only been enhanced by also riding bikes on roads too.)

Horse rider here and I've had serious issues with drivers on the road (sister and her pony both ended up on the floor because of an idiot driver). The only thing I can say is it got better once I had a hat cam. It was really obvious to drivers and they seemed to slow down around me more. If an inconsiderate driver comes along I can send the footage to the police. (Plus you get great footage of gallops on bridle paths!)

I think a lot of people seem to just see a horse as an obstacle to overtake - no different to going round a bollard. The idea that the horse is an unpredictable living animal, who might be frightened and spook just doesn't seem to occur to them.

It never ceases to amaze me too, just how stupid drivers can be around horses.
I was leading my horse along a narrow, bendy road and had my dh drive along in front to warn on coming traffic. At one point he had to leap out of his vehicle to flag down an on coming car, who then sort of swerved round him and continued to approach me at speed, even after he could see the horse dancing about in the road.
I don't think they can have any idea just how much damage a horse can do to their vehicles.

My dd goes to a very rural school. There are loads of stables in the area and some of them actually take the piss and are dangerous.

I nearly smashed in to huge horse with my kids in the car when the rider thought it was a great idea to walk her house across the road immediately behind a fast bend.

The amount of times there is a huge queue because two horse riders are just lazily plodding down the road chatting away and people don’t want to over take because there is no room.

It works both ways.

Cars don’t own the road but neither do the horse riders

The idea that the horse is an unpredictable living animal, who might be frightened and spook just doesn't seem to occur to them

Then why take them on busy roads?

Some drivers are just idiots but others I suspect have never been educated about the dangers of driving too fast past a horse

If you didnt grow up or learn to drive in a rural area and don't have any horsey friends then this is often the case

I learnt to drive in the very early 1990s and don't recall being warned about horses

I am well aware of the dangers now due to having a number of horsey friends but suspect that in my late teens/ 20s I probably wasn't as considerate of horse riders while driving as I should have been

Then why take them on busy roads?

If we're going down this road of victim-blaming... as per fucking usual

Why do you drive your car in places where there are large unpredictable animals? They've been doing theirs longer than you've been doing yours.

Then why take them on busy roads?

She wasn’t on a busy road

No one rides horses on roads for fun. In our area we’ve lost a lot of bridleways - new roads, housing estates, etc have all been built across existing bridleways meaning riders have to ride on the roads.

DD has got a hat cam, but stupidly wasn’t wearing as she was only nipping down the lane.

I was reading a post on one of our local FB community groups about a ride out for the Pass Wide & Slow campaign - people actually made death threats. I mean, come on..... Police weren’t interested in the slightest

Then why take them on busy roads? Firstly I can't think of any rider that would purposely take their horse for a pleasure ride on a busy road. Most riders are on the road because there is no alternative route and let's remember they are perfectly entitled to be there.

OP - I know what you mean, some drivers just seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that they can cause serious injury to the horse, the rider and even themselves by driving like twats around horses. Some drivers have also forgotten that the highway code instructs them to 'pass wide and slowly' when passing a horse and to always listen to a rider's request to slow down or stop.

I think that as riders we also have a duty to be considerate on the roads so that others can pass us. I think that saying thank you to cars that do slow down is essential too.

Sometimes I think some drivers do it deliberately to be honest.

A friend had a nasty accident when a car driver went past with his hand on the horn. No need - the road was wide and clear and plenty of room to go round her. He was just being a dick.

DD always says thanks, gets out of the road if she can, wears hi-vis, etc - if the van driver had waited all of 10 seconds there was a layby just ahead, she’d have moved out of the way. She wasn’t in his way at all when he came back down the lane - he called her a cunt FFS

I get fed up with hearing that horses shouldn’t be on the road, etc. Horse riders are perfectly entitled to be on the road

Not a rider at present but used to be and I do cycle. I honestly think it has two root causes: arrogance and entitledness on the part of many drivers who genuinely believe the roads are solely for them, and complete ignorance/lack of thinking about the fact that a horse is a large and powerful animal who can easily spook and do a lot of damage. Some of the reckless passes drivers do to me on a bike are really quite scary despite the fact that I'm well out from the kerb in primary position - I can't imagine how frightening they would be to a horse. I've also had drivers follow me hooting and do illegal manoeuvres in order to get round me, seemingly in the belief that I'm not allowed to be anywhere on the road other than hugging a kerb or to navigate a roundabout.

If anything I think there need to be more people using the roads for purposes other than driving, both for the environment and to normalise it. I'm rarely driving in rural areas, but when I do see a horse I'm very careful to pass wide and slow.

It's a lack of understanding. OH hadn't spent any time near horses until mine, although he was always respectful. It wasn't until he had spent some time near horses and understood how quickly they can take offence to seemingly tiny tings, and then accompanied me on his bike, that he realised how intimidating fast pushy traffic can be.

I am lucky that my horse isn't in the slightest bit bothered by traffic, so I take very little notice. But there will always be 'those' drivers- hopefully for every one, there will be 10 good ones.

You did absolutely the right thing to call the company and complain

If anything I think there need to be more people using the roads for purposes other than driving, both for the environment and to normalise it.

Definitely

I also think the police need to start taking it far more seriously too.

Last summer DD was hit by a car - she was out with another rider (I don’t ride so she was out with another experienced adult) someone tried to overtake them, a car was coming the other way so the overtaker pushed his way in between DD and the other rider. Neither horses or riders were seriously hurt fortunately, but the whole thing was caught on DD’s hat cam and dash cams of 2 other car drivers. Police wouldn’t take any action.

I hear it time and time again, in fact someone locally was hit by an off duty police officer.

I hear all sorts of stupid comments, one bloke I know refuses to slow down for horses, because he did once years ago and the rider didn’t say thanks so “fuck them”

Motherofcreek it’s not ‘a fast bend’ it is a bend in the road, so poor visibility by definition, which you decided to drive fast on despite knowing that the road is full of riding centers and horses are likely to be on the road. The rider was in the middle of the lane as that made her visible a bit sooner on the bend.

As for riding two abreast there are many reasons riders do this, e.g, to shield a young horse, to help a young rider, to stop cars from overtaking in unsafe places, etc. It is not illegal to ride two horses abreast, it is your responsibility to overtake safely.

OP I have given up on the roads after one too many near misses. Twice i’ve had wing mirrors clip my foot, once I was stood just waiting to see if the truck would manage to stop in time or would kill us on a narrow country lane, and seen too many friends injured. From the ignorant, to the irresponsible to the down right aggressive who point at their road tax as they try to drive you off the road, the roads are full of idiots.

I genuinely think it’s all part of the general increase in entitled behaviour and lack of thought for others that seems to be the norm.
I used to hack out all over the place but now try and avoid even quieter lanes.
You can see the whole mindset on the regular Facebook threads in my rural area, where drivers are complaining about other drivers not driving fast enough on roads where the speed limit is 60, as though that’s the minimum speed. Some even go so far as to say that they are irresponsible as they are “forcing” others to overtake recklessly,
It’s not just riders, runners and cyclists are just as much at risk from this attitude.

I genuinely think it’s all part of the general increase in entitled behaviour and lack of thought for others that seems to be the norm.

It's bullying. They are faster/bigger/heavier so they do what they like to punish anyone using "their" road getting in "their way".

(obvs I know some horses will equal the weight of a car, but the perception is that car>horse)

I nearly smashed in to huge horse with my kids in the car when the rider thought it was a great idea to walk her house across the road immediately behind a fast bend

Wow. You endangered the lives of your children, a horse and its rider (not to mention yourself) by driving around a blind bend at a speed so fast you could not safely stop if there was an obstruction?

Have you any idea how dangerous your driving is if you think that's appropriate? Any bend you can't see round - there could be another car - overtaking, stopped, broken down, whatever - or a cyclist, pedestrian, livestock or wildlife in the road, a fallen tree, any other obstruction you can think of... It is incumbent on you to be in control of your car, and that means you must be able to stop if necessary.

I'm a horse rider (although I don't have my own horse any longer so just ride at a club - not on the roads)
and I'm also a car driver (I also cycle, but never on the roads apart from small residential roads - I'm too scared to ride on the main roads as I've been knocked down in the past - by a woman).

I think the majority of horse riders are female, and the majority of drivers who deliberately drive aggressively around horses are male.
Just another example of misogynistic bullying - some blokes get such a kick from terrifying women and how is easy is it to do that when the woman is on a horse and they are in a vehicle?

Definitely wear a hat cam at all times and report these drivers to the police and employers every single time.

It is incumbent on you to be in control of your car, and that means you must be able to stop if necessary.

Good rule of thumb I was taught:
"be able to stop in the distance you can see."

I think experience on a more vulnerable form of transport sharpens the mind and should perhaps be obligatory. I certainly cycle into a blind bend prepared for it to contain a driver who is doing something damn stupid, and I try to drive the same way.

face palm at the "fast bend" comment

It's a bend - you have a choice whether to drive it "fast" or not......i was taught to be cautious around blind bends.....

Horses will walk out onto the road to be seen quicker or to cross...

The netitlement of some folk is just astounding. I must say in my experience riding on the roads it has been lorry drivers and motorbikes who have shown the most consideration!

Dropping from a road that’s 60 mph to 30mph ( not that I do 60 anyway ) around the is cautious enough.

It was idiotic of her to cross at that point. Where is the common sense in that? She put her horse in danger and all my passengers. It’s lucky there was no one behind me as I had to break suddenly.

Should we creep around every corner on county lanes just incase some idiot on a horse wants to cross it at the end of the curve of the bend?

To be honest I think it shows your entitlement to think that walking an animal out in to danger at the risk of every one else.

Would you cross your child at the beginning of a blind bend or on it? Where YOU couldn’t see what was around the corner - or would you walk further up where you could see it was safe and other road users could see you?

Horses will walk out onto the road to be seen quicker or to cross...

Well no actually the riders walk the horses out in to the road. And if it is the horse that’s leading the way they they shouldn’t be on the road should they?

And if they want to be seen why not actually get to a place were people can actually see them!