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Discuss horse riding and ownership on our Horse forum.

Original poster

Any jumping experts around?

46 replies

JillCrewesmum · 28/08/2018 09:06

Dd has a fab little horse. When we bought him he'd jumped and won at 90 and 1m, heard nothing but good things. We've had him 18 months and his sj has not been great, he tends to chip in and quite often refuses. Cross country he's much better. We have spent hundreds on new saddle, lessons, physio, teeth.

My question is, would a pain issue lead to a horse refusing sj (he refused in the warm up and at the first fence then jumped clear) but able to jump clear round the cross country?

Various people have said that he is just being naughty but I'm not sure as he really does try to please.

Thinking of a bute trial to see if anything changes?

Any advice welcome! He had been shod a couple of days before and I wonder if that had irritated something?

Clutching at straws a bit as he's a lovely boy who's been fab all summer, we'd finally thought we'd sorted it and now he's back to his old tricks.

OP posts:
tenbob · 28/08/2018 09:13

Presumably there is no pattern to what he refuses - fillers, spreads, coming in from a certain rein, being on a certain leg, sharp turns coming into the jump?

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 28/08/2018 09:16

We thought at first it was fillers. But if a spooky filler is later in the course he's fine. It was coming off a turn but the warm up jumps had a straight approach and he didn't like those either

Could he just get nervous sj??

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maxelly · 28/08/2018 11:31

Yes I think low-level or even remembered pain issues can definitely affect a horse when SJ but not XC. Many horses get really buzzed up for XC and the excitement and the adrenaline gets them through or masks the pain, whereas showjumping is generally more scary and less fun for them, plus the tighter turns, larger jumps etc can be more painful on hocks and backs. Also sometimes they find it harder to jump and land off a surface as opposed on on grass which can be softer.

I would always assume pain somewhere (rather than behavioural) if a previously good jumper suddenly starts stopping, if nothing else has changed with the rider or management.

Just a thought, has your vet checked his sight and for any Neuro issues? Some horses can find it hard to see the brightly coloured fences particularly if its in a poorly lit indoor.

I would see if there's any more investigations your vet can do, maybe see if it's a possibility to get a full work up at an equine hospital? It can be a long and expensive road trying to diagnose these deep seated issues I'm afraid though...

maxelly · 28/08/2018 11:43

Oh and yes a bute trial won't hurt but doesn't necessarily tell you much. If he improves on bute that says he is probably hurting somewhere but finding out where can be very tricky.

If he doesn't improve that doesn't necessarily mean it's definitely behavioural, horses will remember things causing them pain for a long time so he might not recover confidence straight away. Also the Bute won't deal with all physical problems e.g. Neuro.

I would still try though and also another cheap thing you can do is see whether he's any different with a stronger rider, not at all suggesting there's anything wrong with your Dd's riding or you get someone to bully him round a course, but I know from long and painful experience that on a 'dirty' or unpredictable stopper it's easy to completely lose your confidence and ride very defensively to a fence, pretty much anticipating the stop, and this will transmit to the horse who in turn will lose confidence and start stopping or chipping more, and so the vicious circle goes on. I've seen this happen with horses and riders who previously were v confident but something about the combination/partnership just doesn't work. I still suspect the initial stopping probably started with the horse hurting somewhere.but then the loss of confidence persists even after the pain resolves...

Ariela · 28/08/2018 11:51

Definitely agree with the above, it may be that your daughter is expecting him to refuse, so the pony is picking up on her hesitation. And the more he does it the more she worries so the more he does it. (Have been there!)
I'd try other more experenced riders, and try dosing your daughter up on rescue remedy thereafter. Worked for us, we had major problems with fillers till one day daughter walked a course and said the memorable words 'I don't like the look of jump 3 but I'll make him jump it anyway'. Never failed to get placed after that, and many years on said pony is still instilling young riders with confidence jumping.

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 28/08/2018 12:57

Just a thought, has your vet checked his sight

this is interesting as dd said 'i think he's blind in one eye!' in a kind of throwaway comment

I've wiggled my fingers near his eye and he blinks so ...also he will then jump round the rest of the course, a bit awkwardly at first then seems to settle.

My older dd (events at Novice) has ridden him and he did exactly the same to her - stopped at the first then went round.

I think it might be pain and the reason he jumps round is because he gets a smack and knows he has to do it Sad

Funnily enough he was at a competition a few weeks ago and was fab. didn't look at anything and was really happy and cheerful all day. We really thought we'd turned a corner.

OP posts:
Dontknowwhatimdoing · 28/08/2018 15:44

How old is he? Could he be coming to the end of his competition career, and starting to find it harder work than he used to? Another thought is how does your DD's riding compare to his previous rider? I can imagine him being less confident SJ if he is used to a bit more help into a fence, and isn't now getting it.

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 28/08/2018 16:00

He's only 11!

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maxelly · 29/08/2018 10:58

That is young, what a shame to be having these troubles with him. I would trust your instinct on whether something is bothering him physically or not, the fact it's intermittent and he can jump well is pushed isn't conclusive IMO, horses are good at masking/hiding pain and if they're of an amenable disposition will usually try even if they're hurting. One thing that might help going forward is keeping a log and trying to see if there's any pattern to the times he's good and the time he stops, e.g. type of surface (grass or arena), lighting, type of fence esp colour, atmosphere (busy competition vs schooling at home vs lesson). If you can find a pattern that might help you get to the bottom of what's going on?

lastqueenofscotland · 29/08/2018 12:27

Could be a confidence issue, 1m tracks are big enough for a horse to lose confidence if the rider is missing every stride to every fence for a long time, if he was helping the last owner out no end.
Also I’m sure your daughter is a very competent rider but have you tried putting someone else on him, her instructor or a professional on to see if he does the same?

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 30/08/2018 00:12

Got dd1 on him today and he was the same, jumped a couple and refused lots. When she got off she checked his mouth and he has a deep cut in the corner Sad I am presuming this is eat he's been trying to tell us. Feel terribly guilty. He's got a week off with anusol cream and vasekine in the first instance

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Santaclarita · 31/08/2018 14:13

Mine started refusing to jump, something he's never ever done and it was only a small cross pole. He did the rest after a bit of fighting from the rider, but I knew he was in pain. He's now had kissing spine surgery and surgery on both stifles. Doubt your horse is that bad though, but they can hide pain very well. He'd had numerous checks by vets, physios, saddlers and farriers. Showed no pain or lameness then one day he clearly got sick of hiding it and he showed us everything. Couldn't touch his back at all, and after that surgery he went lame on his hind legs. Glad that he eventually showed us the problem but if he'd done it sooner he wouldn't have had to have been in pain for so long. Sadly they don't understand this.

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 14:29

How did you find out it was his stifles? Vet doesn't think spine.

OP posts:
Santaclarita · 31/08/2018 14:37

He went lame. The physio said after his spine surgery that he wasn't improving so I was lucky to get an appointment with a specialist in lameness and she said straight away it's his stifles.

Santaclarita · 31/08/2018 14:39

I wouldn't rule out spine though either, but often kissing spine is a secondary issue to something else. With my horse, his stifles were likely the main issue that caused ks but we'll never know now. It could be your horses hocks, stifles, spine etc.

I would try a bute trial or just go straight in with nerve blocks.

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 14:41

He's got a very nasty cut in his mouth and he was jumping really well so I am HOPING it is 'just' the cut (poor boy). He jumps xc really well and no problem so I am confused! I think dd doesn't take so much of a contact xc

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Santaclarita · 31/08/2018 14:45

Hopefully it is just the cut, but can't imagine that cut has been there the entire time without any one noticing.

He will be running and probably jumping 'flatter' doing cross country, whereas show jumping is more compact and need to be held together. That's when he'll be in pain.

MurunBuchstansagur · 31/08/2018 14:45

Maybe he doesn’t like jumping.

And if he refuses a jump he gets a smack 😕

I do hate the way horses are treated as objects.

MrsMozart · 31/08/2018 14:46

Have another saddler?

We had a jumping pony who'd throw in some stinking stops. Turned out to be his (new made to measure) saddle, points of tree) digging in behind his shoulder.

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 14:47

What should my next move be do you think santaclarita? Vet was reluctant to x ray but of course I can insist.

OP posts:
Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 14:48

mrsmozart I think dh would leave me, we've changed saddle twice at great expense. I can see it's not digging in so I doubt it's that.

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MrsMozart · 31/08/2018 14:57

Have you had a decent back person see how the saddle fits?

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 15:00

Yes. We spent about 6 months on physio, saddle, back person, chiro, teeth, going back to basics etc etc. He got really confident and things were going brilliantly. We've been away so he's had two weeks off and now he is totally back to how he was before (but with a cut mouth! Which is odd as we'd only ridden him three of four times)

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MrsMozart · 31/08/2018 15:11

Odd about the mouth. Any change in bit?

A thought - is anyone else riding him, either with or without your consent?

More thoughst - any independent knowledge of his history? What weight and ability is the new rider v. the previous?

Original poster
JillCrewesmum · 31/08/2018 15:14

He lost a shoe the day we went away so was without a front shoe for a couple of weeks. Can't think of anything else that's happened. He's absolutely not lame.

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