I went to view a horse today, can I have some advice please

[NagNagN4g]

So, I went to view my first ever horse today (ridden nearly 30 years, had numerous loan horses just never my own).

Perfect in every way... height, colour, breed, price and location. He was a perfect gentleman on the ground, as his own said he was.

Got on and did some walking and trotting in a paddock, he’s forward going and a little bit strong (as he was advertised to be). But did lots of transitions and he listened nicely.

Thought I was ready to canter so went down to the bottom of the field to come back up again and disaster struck! I asked for canter, he put his head down, reared up slightly, went down again and as he went down I went over and fell off! His owner said he has never ever done that before, she was mortified and her immediate reaction made me believe it was completely out of the blue (I had a very knowledgeable friend with me as well).

She got straight on him, cantered around no problems. I got back on and trotted around then did a few steps of canter so I didn’t lose my nerve.

He hasn’t been in consistent work for months, this was the first time he’d been ridden properly in weeks.

So wise MNetters, what would you do? Suck it up as a ‘shit happens’ and get on with it and buy him (I fell for him the second I saw his ad), or leave it and find something else?

I feel like we could have a really good partnership, but in the back of my head I know he’s done that and wonder if he’d do it again. I do believe his owner when they said he’s never done it before. They’ve owned him 3 years.

Horsequest Ref #: 195803, although may be a touch small.

I love my little native ponies however I am a short arse

Also if you type highland into horsemart there’s a gorgeous whitefield highland mare although she may be too old for you.

Aww she’s very cute, I’m still on the hunt for a gelding first and foremost at the moment.

I’ve found another one who looks lovely. I’ve messaged them as well.

Is there anyone who is good with conformation? The first one looks to be slightly low in the pasterns when moving. When he stands square he’s ok, it’s hard to tell though. Would this cause any long term issues?

If you pm me a vid I can have a look for you?

Thank you. Not sure I can send attachments via pm? I’ll give it a try.

Very happy to have a look too.

Thanks Jam. I can’t send attachments via pm so if you’re happy for me to email, then please message me your address and I’ll send some over. Thanks

I'm quite happy to look at conformation / movement if you need a second opinion.

FWIW, I know of 4 people within my own circle who compete internationally within their sports, who are all totally respectable and above board (one is a vet), and advertise, and buy, horses from preloved. I can also think of a further dozen or so who have used preloved for buying and selling horses, who are sensible and above board "normal-level" amateurs. Of course there are idiots and chancers on there - but no more than on facebook or any other advertising site.

Some of them even use Dragon Driving!

Don't think I can send PMs as I'm on the app. I can receive PMs though, so if you message me I'll send you back my email address and have a look! (Complicated!)

Thanks Jam, have sent you a pm.

Diseases I’m happy to email you as well, just pm me your address if you’re happy for me to have it. The more opinions the better!!

Check out Blake McCusker on FB. He has some lovely horses but they seem to go very quickly.

Lots of lovely horses out there for sale never buy the first one you see. Look about and try a few more ... you can always go back and try him again another day ....There are a lot of unscrupulous sellers that will have you over unfortunately.

I might have sent you a private message. Or I may have reported you with the oddest report message mnhq have ever received. Hopefully the former!

Haha, received and replied Diseases thanks. Maybe I’ll just call you Sheep .

I’ve followed Blake for a while, and have watched all his footage from the palomino stallion. I don’t know much about breaking in a youngster but some of the things he’s done have made me recoil slightly. He does have some lovely horses in though but they get snapped up so quickly.

The palo stallion video is enough to put anyone off a horse out of his yard, surely?

That said, I had a horse come through a similar system (not his yard), which was brilliant. Some horses are excellent despite the training they receive...

It would definetly put me off.

There are a fair few folk who use 'natural horsmanship' to take shortcuts on what natural horsemanship actually is.

There is reason people take time to break youngsters in. It's to ensure that each part of the process is fully absorbed and accepted before you move onto the next bit. That way if you have a problem you can address that bit of the problem on it's own before moving onto the next bit.

The little pally stallion looks very anxious and stressed and doesn't trust the rider. He is submitting through fear not because he likes and trusts and wants to please. It's all good until he decides he is frightened anymore, or is so frightened he loses all perspective.

It's like those idiots who insist join up is about establishing a relationship. It's not, it's about chasing a horse around long enough for it to be exhausted enough for it to submit out of fear. Mine come to me because they quite like me. They turn in on the lunge when they want to stop work, as they know that when I go to them, sometimes it's the end of the session. So are clever enough to try and end the session themselves.

It probably works on some horses. But I know a fair few who would bide their time then have complete meltdowns. Or start challenging what they have been taught.

You don't get a good relationship with any animal by manipulating it's fear response. You might get short term progress, certain horses will probably never challange it. But any horse with a decent amount of intelligence will eventually blow.

My highland mare is very sweet. She has taken to her ridden work like a duck to water. But it's been done slowly and sympathetically. And she is exactly the type of pony you can't make do anything she doesn't want to. She will do things because we ask her to, in a way she understands and because she genuinely wants to please. But if I had chucked tack in, then got on and tried to ride her forwards like that she would have had an absolute melt down.

And how they put mouths in is beyond me. If you watch any western film, or anyone riding western you see how terrified those horses are of the bit. They literally sit down rather than accept any kind of contact. You couldn't get a horse that frightened of it's mouth to work in any kind of outline.

The stallion video is a pile of rubbish. It popped up on my FB feed followed by dozens of ‘Ooooh, ahhhh, awww, perfect horsey’ comments from people who have no clue how long it takes to get a horse used to being ridden without brewing problems for the future.

But if I had chucked tack in, then got on and tried to ride her forwards like that she would have had an absolute melt down.

I have a highland who was backed that way. It had serious, lasting consequences for the pony - though sensitive re-backing and years of training and have made good on a bad start.

I had another who was backed in a similar set up, who was just a bit shut down about life - went on to become a great little horse.

That sort of training "works" (outwardly) with some horses because they're basically nice animals who will put up with a lot. It's rarely - if ever - the best option for any horse, and I hate seeing things rushed that way.

Non of mine would have coped either diseases.

My little highland mare is alpha mare in our herd. She is 'in charge' in the field. She allows us to be in charge on the ground because we are firm but fair, and she likes food that we are in charge of. So is biddable in the school because she knows she will get a handful in a bucket after her work. I have absolutely no doubt that if we bullied her she would be a handful. I have seen her put the herd in a 'safe place' and parade between them and the 'danger' (a fire engine dealing with a grass fire next door) and if any of the firemen had come in our field I have no doubt that she would have charged at them.

She is odd in that if something does spook her, which isn't very often, she spooks then turns around and confronts it. She attacked a plastic bag that blew across the school while lunging her once. Spooked, stopped spun around and snorted at it, then went towards it and pawed it.

Am not into mumbo jumbo horse whispering bollocks when done by numpties who have done an online course, but she is unlike any other pony I have ever known. She is absolutely fascinating to watch, would definetly have been an alpha mare with a big herd.

My little section A would be terrified. He would have submitted but at the first sign of trouble would have a complete meltdown. He looks to his rider/handler for confidence. You don't want kids on a pony that doesn't trust and like humans.

I have seen lots of folks come and go om our yard who want to replace years of knowledge and experience and empathy with horses with a DVDs worth of 'natural horsemanship' tuition. You can not replicate good old fashioned horsemanship. And it's dangerous to try.

I like learning new stuff but you can't reinvent the wheel.

I have a similarly odd one Frouby! He runs towards what he is scared off and has to touch it either with his nose or his hoof, then he’s fine. If you try working away from the scary object and slowly circling closer and closer he blows his top. Never seen one like him before!

You can not replicate good old fashioned horsemanship. And it's dangerous to try. I like learning new stuff but you can't reinvent the wheel.

I think that's really true. One of the things I don't like about popular NH "systems" is that they're based - generally - on over-simplifications of equine psychology. I think that does horses a real disservice - they can be incredibly complex, and the diversity of their natures and reactions shouldn't be dismissed.

A lot of the NH stuff originates in the US where some people were (and perhaps still are) using extremely harsh methods to break and handle horses. I never experienced anything similar in the U.K., e.g. hobbling horses until they gave in and accepted a rider. Then on top of that you get people who want to make money out of it like Parelli where it’s all about the showmanship, marketing and sales. Everyone has a system that is supposedly unique, based on some pseudo-scientific claims as well as being more natural, and sells endless demo tickets, videos, books and training.

Glad I’m not the only one who thinks his methods are not the greatest . Definitely submission through fear.

Anyway, I decided against the one I found with the low pasterns and I found another one who just looks so sweet but friend has put me off . He’s a happy hacker, very green in the school and she said the fact I can’t school him is a worry... we don’t even have a school at the moment! When we do get one I can take the time a slowly do some work with him in it. I get excited and then these friends of mine keep putting me off. One sent me a 16.3 24 year old mare a few days ago and said it would be perfect for me She said I didn’t need a world beater. No, but I still know what I want, and it isn’t that!! I’ve decided I’m going to keep my search to myself.

This other one I’ve found is only 20 minutes away from me and I’m going later this week to spend some time with him before riding and will take the process slowly. The owner is happy with that too. So we’ll see what comes from this.

One sent me a 16.3 24 year old mare a few days ago and said it would be perfect for me

I had a friend like this - after one of my horses died, she kept sending me adverts for free to a good home, archaic, crippled horses. Aside from not wanting another horse, let alone to take on an aging crock who would likely cost me a fortune in vet bills, I found it incredibly depressing to see so many people passing their old horses on like that. After a few polite refusals, I lost patience and told her to engage her bloody brain.

I have no idea what makes people do that... Suggesting a compromise in terms of an inch or two of height, a year or two, or a variation in training / budget / specification is one thing, but there are limits!

You can school out hacking, but a school is a big bonus with a baby pony. I am a midges willy away from moving from current yard for various reasons. The only thing keeping me there is no one ever uses the school.

4 year olds are usually pretty good. They can be rubbery but want to learn and please. It's once they get to 6/7 the 'kevins' can set in. The 'oooh, I know what you want,but I don't want to' stage. 2 and 3 year olds are the same.

Stick to your guns. 24 is just ridiculous. A fit, healthy low milage 15 year old maybe
But not a pensioner.