Tell me about loaning a pony

[lostinsunshine]

My dd is doing really well with riding lessons and has done several "stable management " type weeks at the stables during holidays. She is asking about have a loan arrangement of a pony at the stables. Apparently they do this.
I know little or nothing - i gave up my riding classes in the 70s when the stables sold up. No alternatives where I lived. It sort of fell away.
Please tell me all you know about loaning arrangements - costs, obligations, access etc . I think it is about £150/month.

They are all different! It depends largely on whether it is a full loan or a part loan arrangement. Usually full loan means you take on the full financial obligation although many owners will continue with their own insurance as otherwise it can get messy.

Full financial obligation would mean you pay the cost of livery, farriery, feed, hay, straw etc. The owner would usually supply tack, as they obviously retain ownership, although many loaners buy their own bits and pieces (which remain their property after the loan has ended).

Part loan - well, how long is a piece of string! Some owners charge a set amount per week or month and the part-loan has set days when they have sole charge of the horse, and would undertake all stable duties on those days and obviously ride.

I have a pony on part-loan but it is incredibly flexible and casual. The loaner lets me know what days she is free in any given week. I don't take a financial contribution off her (although she has offered) and will muck out/poo pick for me on "her days". This is because he is a young and rather challenging pony and I am just so grateful that someone confident and competent is getting him out and about for me!

Before agreeing to any loan, you need to be crystal clear with the owner what the expectations are and what obligations they expect from you. Some owners, frankly, take the p*ss. If you do agree to the loan arrangement, you would be very wise to have a written loan agreement and don't sign it unless you are happy with it.

In my experience there are far more ponies/horses looking for loaners and sharers than there are loaners and shares so you are in a strong position - albeit your daughter is young and inexperienced. Still - there are ponies out there that have been outgrown and need a jockey but the owners don't want to sell.

As it's a riding school I strongly suspect that any "loan arrangement" will still mean the pony will be used in the school. Take care that you don't end up paying rather a lot for very little exclusive time with the pony.

My riding school does this. It's £80 per week. For that, you have to do all care (muckng out, feed etc). You're allowed to ride a max of 1 hour a day (and not when it's needed for lessons). You also can't leave the grounds of the school (ie no hacking). And you can't jump unless in a lesson. So basically you can do groundwork for an hour in one of the schools, plus all care for £80, (although that's it, ie no vet bills etc).

I think that's pretty exorbitant, although we may do this for DD1 for a few months to see how she deals with having a pony to care for before considering buying her a pony.

"My riding school does this. It's £80 per week."
Bloody hell that's a lot of money if your mucking out every day!
I think the main problem is that most riding school who operate these types of schemes don't allow you to hack out. IMO you learn so much about riding in general i.e. balance etc over different terrains/speeds and the horse/pony your riding when hacking out, many horse/ponies are totally offering when hacking out, the the horse/pony also learns so much about you. I hack my new horse everywhere, it's really helping cement our relationship (he gets quickly anxious and stressed) and I've learnt so much about him and how he responds to different situations etc. and he knows exactly what I expect of him. I know why riding schools don't allow those "loaning" their horses to hack out but it's creating riders who only ever ride safe horses in a safe controlled environment which I don't think is good.

Thanks. All really useful.

We had a loan for dd from her stables, £400 pcm. I got pretty fed up with her only getting three days a week for that and very limited riding so we gave it up and are buying our own.

That’s extortionate cobrider. I’d assumed that the arrangement with our stables would be akin to full livery so you wouldn’t be expected to go up twice a day—but, no, for £80 you’re also expected to give them free labour. Despite all this, almost every horse and pony belonging to the school is on part loan

Dd’s riding school has a loan scheme but it is extortionately expensive - £500 pcm which includes one lesson a week. If the girls who’ve got loan ponies want to take them to competitions then they have to pay £70 per hour for hire of the horse box plus staff member to go with them so making a day trip eye-watering even with two girls sharing. Unsurprisingly the two girls doing this both come from very affluent families (and I can’t fathom why they just don’t get their own pony ...).

Dd looked at what they’re getting and thought it was ridiculous so in addition to her lessons there she also shares a horse at a lovely livery yard. She goes twice a week and is able to jump and do flat work in the arena or go for a hack across the fields. While she’s there she’s expected to muck out, groom, feed and poo pick but she’s not expected to be there twice on her sharing days. Over the summer, the horse she’s sharing lives out so no mucking out at the moment. It costs her £25 a week and makes her very happy. The yard owner also asks her to exercise one of the other horses most weeks if she has time.

If there are any livery yards nearby can you see if there are any ponies which need a sharer there and compare what you’d be getting from the riding school?

I’ve been looking for a pony share for DD for a year. Only one has come up and that was a youngster which was 25 miles each way. There have been a couple of horses I could have gone for, but there’s really very few available. I wonder if I’m looking in the wrong place.

Cheers all.
@noitsnotteatimeyet , good tip although dd has a good bond with this school and it's well regarded locally.

I do this through my riding school. It’s £400 pcm for a half loan, which is 1hr handling and 1hr riding 3 days a week. Can jump once a week, and hacking is allowed. No obligations beyond bringing in/turning out and grooming and tack before/after riding. It suits me because I like knowing that actually it makes no difference to the horse if I’m there or not, so I don’t get stressed if I’m busy at work worrying about having to get to him, but I get to ride him 4 times a week (inc lesson), so I do feel like we’ve built some kind of relationship. I also like that if things change and I can’t do it any more he won’t have to move yard, nothing will change for him, and I won’t have to sort out finding a loaner/sharer. On the other hand, if what I wanted was a horse to bring on or compete with, it wouldn’t work for me at all, and there’s not a massive amount of flexibility - I think it depends very much on your individual situation and exactly what deal you’re being offered.

One thing that attracts me to this set-up is there’s no worry about what happens if they need to see a vet, and we can walk away with a month’s notice.

Yep, that’s a big plus for me too, toast. At the moment I’m just not in a position to commit properly to owning a horse.

iveburntthetoast I have found that there is such demand that the riding schools local to me are really cheeky with the youngsters who loan. We stuck it out for a year but we couldn’t even treat the horse as our own on the days that we were meant to have her.

I think these riding schools really know how to charge, compared to privately loaned horses and ponies, and the deal is usually loaded in their favour. Most private loans are about £20-30/week and you get to ride 2-3 days a week (usually no time limit). Sometimes you do all jobs on the days that you loan. You'd usually need third party rider insurance, which isn't that expensive and can come automatically with BHS, PC or RC membership. The plus side about loaning from your riding school is that you'd know the pony.

Do you know what is expected from your daughter in this loan agreement (as in care) and how much riding she would be permitted?

(I'm an instructor and would recommend some brilliant riding schools for lessons, but not particularly for loans). It might be a good trial loan before moving onto a proper loan of a private horse or pony where she would have more of a feeling of sharing a pony - with one person rather than a whole rising school...

A classmate of dd's has just begun a loan so I will see how it goes from her and from these helpful tips.
Great idea about insurance.

The advantage of doing this at a riding school is that often there will be more supervision than at a private yard and they will often be happier with part-loaners who are younger- a lot of private owners will want a sharer to be a bit older or for the parents to be involved. There would probably be more support and help available and as others have said it's a good first step before moving on to a private loan. £150 a month is not a bad deal, depending on how much riding is allowed.

I'd want to know exactly what would be allowed, and how much help/supervision would be available to your DD- as well as what would be expected of her in terms of chores. Doing chores such as mucking out etc will be great experience of her, but if she is young-ish and expected to bring in/turn out then it would be important to check the safety of this.

If she's allowed to hack out without an instructor then you definitely need public liability- BHS or PC membership is usually the cheapest way to get this. Otherwise, you could be held liable for any damage caused by the pony- if, for example, she fell off and the pony ran onto a busy road and caused an accident, the damage could easily run to £10,000+. Obviously that's a nightmare scenario, and hopefully it would never happen, but that's what the public liability insurance is for.

I agree that riding school loans are usually weighted towards the riding school- after all they are trying to make a profit, rather than just cover costs. However, I do think that if good help and support is available, plus a known pony in a friendly environment, it can be worth the extra expense.

Another good thing about loaning through a riding school especially if your mucking out etc is that you will know 1. if you and your DD really do have the the tine to do it and 2, you will also know if your DD is really committed to the whole idea.
Look carefully into it, how much flexibility there is, will you always have to ride at certain times of the day organ you at the very leats choose a couple of times a week when your DD rides it? If the riding school is stating times all the times do those times suit you? For example your DD may want to ride straight after school but this may be when the riding school also want the pony, they may offer you latter time will this suit you? Also what tie can your DD ride it at th weekend likely it b a riding schools busiest time. What about in the winter do they have a floodlit outdoor school or an indoor school? Can you you faculties like schools at the same time as other lessons are going in, or is realistic to use a school at the same time as lessons are going on, you probably dont have to think about these things at present and it could be tricky if its a small school. What happens of the pony is ill? Riding school horse/ponies are much more likely to suffer from musculoskeletal injuries and these can take considerable time to get better? Also how much is the ponies going to be ridden by others? Its perfectly realistic for a pony to be ridden a couple of hours a day every day but a friends DD looked at this and the ponies were being ridden four tines a day, she was making it 5 thats a lot. of work for a pony and again is likely to make it more prone to injury etc. If your DD is only allowed to ride the pony in the school does she know what to do? Many children (and adults) who've often just had group lessons, where the rider is being concentrated on more than the pony just trot/canter round and round, they don't really know how to improve the pony they're riding, a couple of private lessons may improve this.
I personally wouldn't pay £400 a month to loan a riding school horse unless it was a very highly trained school master/mistress but if you can get a pony your DD likes for £150 PCM and there's enough general flexibility that your DD can ride it at least a three times a week at times that really suit you both i.e. its not a one way street with the riding school dictating all the terms and you struggling to fit the rest if your life around it, and the pony isn't being worked into the ground then why not.

£150 a month seems very cheap to me

Good point about the pony being poorly.
Luckily dd has experience of lessons in the winter. We are in The Pennines and so can have tricky winters. The school generally has lessons going unless it is icy in the paddock. Last winter we had a blizzard start at the beginning of the lesson so the teacher pulled them all inside to do a bit of stable management . Dd tends to spend most of her shorter school holidays on riding/stable management weeks at the school. She's helping them with little ones next week.