Rising trot = impossible?

[StormTreader]

I've just had my second lesson ever - its a group lesson thing and everyone else seems to have gotten the trot right away and have moved on to cantering. I can't seem to feel trot as anything other than "I am being shoved vertically off the saddle and am only not dead because I am gripping so much" which is nonsense of course, but try telling my brain that!
The instructor is giving no individual instruction at all other than yelling "heels down!" and "one two one two!" which doesnt feel that helpful.
Can anyone give me a few basics I can try and take with me for this weekends lesson? Should I just try and stand in the stirrups before the trot starts or am I supposed to let it shove me up and try and have faith I wont fall off? I've always wanted to be able to ride but I'm genuinely wondering if I should just stop after this lesson since its just periods of terror right now.

OP, congratulations on your weight loss, a year of dieting is an amazing achievement! It’s not in any way personal that a horse has a maximum weight they can comfortably carry. It’s about their welfare and not about your diet. So please don’t take my comment personally.

This stables sounds incredibly sketchy and they obviously have zero concern for safety so I thought it was reasonable to question why they apparently have different weight limits to every other riding school nearby. Nor would I suggest that you were deliberately hurting a horse, you are a novice rider and it’s the job of the riding school to assess whether you’re safe to ride their horses. In this case, I was questioning their judgement as it’s obviously lacking. What you’ve said about jousting makes perfect sense though.

I stand by saying that this riding school is dangerous though, and I wouldn’t continue to ride there even if it is the only place suitable. You could get seriously injured.

OP, I used to work as a riding instructor in an approved (safe) BHS establishment. I've also worked training actors and on film sets.

This honestly all sounds really unsafe. If you've had two one hour lessons, it's totally unsafe for people to be cantering independently. There are situations where it can be safe/possible for people to canter with relatively little training (usually following another rider along a straight track or on the lunge) and it is (in some ways) easier than trot. In a school with other beginners is not a safe situation.

If I am teaching people to canter (usually between 6 weeks to 12 weeks in, sometimes longer, depending on their progress), I would always ensure the school is clear of other obstacles such as jumps, for the reasons you've described. Falling onto hard objects such as jump wings is a common cause of injury.

This all sounds really unsafe/dangerous to me, and personally, I wouldn't be going back. As someone else has said, it's not the instructor who will get hurt, it's you (and/or possibly the horse). Also, if you feel unsafe/scared, you will tense up and not be able to ride as effectively.

With all of that said, I do think rising trot is one of those things that some people just click with and others don't. I think you may have been unlucky to be in a group where it clicks quickly for everyone else- your experience is more normal ime. If you perhaps have less leg and core strength than others in the group, this may be why you're struggling more.

At home, you can practice by standing over a chair facing backwards then standing up and sitting down- try to do this without balancing on the chair. You don't need to fully straighten, when riding, just rise a few inches out of the saddle, rising too high is a common mistake. Also, ski-sits against a wall can help strengthen the right muscles.

If you want to ride more generally, and aren't just going along because it's a group thing, I'd definitely look for another stables. If you're under about 16st, there will be other options. Private lessons are good initially and different instructors do have different methods- maybe you just need to find the right person?

Booking in a lesson ‘just for you’ is actually a really good idea, but not with someone who’s reaction to accidental jumping with a bunch of people with no previous experience is ‘does anyone else want a go?’ That is bonkers. I’m trying to think of an analogy, but I can’t. It’s that bonkers.

Really shocking OP! I am a novice who now jumps and would have been beyond terrified if I had cantered or jumped within the first few months- to learn to jump you go over poles on the ground first, you don't just take off over a raised jump and the instructor should have been worried for you that that happened.

Personally I found I made so much more progress doing private one to one lessons. That is all I do now- I save groups for fun rides and riding holidays but stick to one to one tuition for improving technique.

Also sometimes changing instructor helps- there are only 2 out of the 6 instructors I ride with at my current riding school as they are the only ones who can not only ride but also know how to teach!

What about booking some lunge lessons? That way the instructor has you 1-2-1 on a long rope, the horse walks, trots and canters under the instructors command and you don't have to worry about stopping or steering.

I'm amazed that this establishment has ABRS approval. I would get in touch with them and report what has been going on.

Are you sure there hasn't been some crossed wires somewhere? Something like them assuming you are more advanced than you are because you are a member of the medieval society?

You can search here for some BHS approved alternatives in your area (although they may have different weight allowances). I sympathise with the weight issue because I have recently bought a horse for a mother/daughter share and I have 3 stone to lose!

As for rising trot, it sounds as though you are gripping too hard which is upsetting your balance. Riding is more about balance and posture than grip and having a strong core. When you are doing the rising trot, try and imagine it as an "easing" of your seat slightly forwards and backwards rather than bobbing up and down. I don't know if this is still correct, but I was taught that you shouldn't actually be able to see daylight between you and the saddle on the rise part of the action, but that can vary according to the individual energy levels and actions of different horses.

This video explains it better than I can!

Good luck with it!

Sorry, that post was poorly written.

What I meant was riding is more about balance and posture, rather than grip. A strong core is very important indeed!

As someone said on another thread on here I think, "back like a soldier, hips like a whore"!

Ahhh I know that school and I am not a rider. There are plenty of others around here. Although if there is another tutor available you might find that helps....I even know which tutor it is from a friends experience...she moved her daughter after about 2 lessons

Find another school. Shop around - you will find one that will have a suitable horse for your weight.

There is no way those "lessons" sound even remotely professional.

As for rising trot - a lot of people try too hard, there's no need to do more than let your bum just come off the saddle. If you have the ball of your foot on the tread of the stirrup, your lower leg straight down from the knee, and your knee and hip relaxed you should be able to bear down on your foot and allow the movement of the horse to lift you slightly out of the saddle. Once you get used to the feel of the movement, and get some control of your lower leg you will be able to progress to using your own leg muscles to lift you out of the saddle rather than allowing the movement of the horse to do it. If that makes sense!

If I'm on a big moving, big striding horse it's too much effort to lift myself so I just relax into the movement and keep "skimming" the saddle.

Control of the lower leg and relaxation of the knee and hip will come with practice.

Under no circumstances should complete newbies be cantering on lesson 2.
I suspect they are not newbies or the class is not being properly controlled.

there's no need to do more than let your bum just come off the saddle.

It doesnt feel like theres much "let" involved, its an inch of being shoved vertically up off the saddle! I saw video my friend took of my first lesson, there is a clear gap of daylight between my bum and the saddle every time. Am I supposed to physically move myself off the saddle before the shove? I'm wondering if the stirrups are being set too long - standing in them doesnt give me much clearance off the saddle.

Incidentally, if anyone knows of any stables with beginner lessons for heavy people around the midlands then feel free to let me know because I cant find any! :)

It's more of a backward and forwards movement than an up/down if that makes sense.

You need a bit of leverage in your knees as well as shorter stirrups. Try and wrap your legs around the horse so that it doesn't lose impulsion, and to try and give you a little bit of an anchor. Also try to sit for a few strides before starting to rise to find a rhythm. Mostly - relax! If you're tense then you'll turn into a cannonball, especially if you lock your knees. (Apologies if these have already been said, I only look at OP's posts )

Personally I dont really rate group lessons anyway-if you're in a 40 minute lesson with 3 others then at best youre getting 10 minutes attention from the instructor. An hour on your own every other week would be better value.

Although I would add that if you’re not particularly fit, an hour’s private class can just about kill you

A lunge lesson (20 -30 mins max as it’s tiring for a beginner) is a good way to get your head round rising trot because you don’t have to think about what the horse is doing or steering back it because it’s all being done for you, just concentrating on the horse movement, your position and what it’s doing or not doing .

Agreed with everyone else that it doesn’t sound safe, but echoing a couple of others, it’s not necessarily up and down. Almost thrusting hips forward rather than directly above the saddle, as if you’re going forward with the horse. Remember to keep the weight in the stirrups and it only needs to be a few inches up! Good luck with it all!

Storm, you don't need much clearance, but shorter stirrups may help. It may help to think of pushing you pelvis forwards rather than straight up- the horse is going forwards too, so if you go straight up you get left behind and become unbalanced.

But it really is one of those things that just takes some people time to master and some click with quicker than others.

Lunge lessons or lessons one on one will help you progress faster. If you put your local area into the NHS website it will give you a list of local approved riding schools. I can't believe everywhere else local has a weight limit of 13st- that's very limiting for them!

Just had a quick look for other centers you could try. I'm not local to the area, but all of these are BHS registered which should in theory guarantee a minimum safety standard. None of them mention weight limits on their sites, so apologies if you've already tried them and been turned away, but some do appear to have bigger horses that could take your weight.

www.moorfarm.co.uk/ These guys look to have good facilities and some bigger horses. They're BHS, ARBS and Pony Club, so ought to have a decent safety record.

www.hollyridingschool.com/ These guys seem like a bit of a smaller set up, but are BHS approved, Pony Club approved and used by Coventry University Equestrian Team, which seems promising. They also seem to have a few bigger horses, so again ought to be able to cater to you.

www.woodbine-stables.co.uk/index.html Again these guys seem like a smaller set up, but are BHS approved. They don't have details of their horses on the site, so might not have a horse suitable for you, but maybe worth a try?

www.radwayridingschool.co.uk/default.asp These guys look like they have great facilities and are BHS approved. Again, they don't detail their horses on their website, but they do specifically advertise things for adults, so I can't imagine they've got a super low weight limit.

Sorry if you've already tried all these or if they aren't really accessible to you, but they might be options worth exploring if you wanted to give a lesson a try elsewhere.

Thanks everyone - I think I'm going to try going to the Saturday lesson and ask if there is any way to go slower or be led. I'm going to try and bear everything in mind and hold onto the thought that its very unlikely to actually come off a trotting horse.

Ill also try the moor farm stables - the holly school does have a 14 1/2 stone weight limit and the others are quite a distance from me but I'm not sure if I tried moor farm or not :)

I completely agree with the others ... the school sounds unsafe and like they are pushing you too fast! Canter is much, much further along the line!

Regards to the trot... it’s very important that you try not to grip with the knees as that will impair your rising in the correct rhythm. Try to concentrate on the rhythm alone and focus in on the horse and not what is being shouted at you... speak the rhythm to yourself if that helps...feel the horse and count in time to his bumps/movement - all horses move at different one two speeds. My old instructor (I was on a very safe horse however and on the lunge so didn’t have to control the horse) asked me to close my eyes which helped me massively and I got it straight away then but I wouldn’t suggest this for you at this school.

Hope some of this helps xx

I'm so scared of falling off that every muscle in my body pretty much locks rigid. I think if I could just get myself to have confidence in the idea that if I stayed relaxed, I wouldnt get bumped off, suddenly it would open the door to being able to do the movement properly.

Storm I hope your Saturday lesson goes better, but returning from canter to trot (especially if you are unbalanced in the trot) is a really common way for people to fall off. I agree, if you can be led, this would be a lot safer, and also allow you to find your balance without interfering with the horse as much. This will require a competent helper, so if it's not standard, you should probably discuss it with the riding school ahead of Saturday.

I hope you have a better experience on Saturday. Please don't let others in your group who are also lacking in experience push you to do things you don't feel comfortable with. If you feel very unsafe at any time, don't be afraid to stop the horse and just get off.

Cross posted!

Honestly, you should not feel that scared! When I was teaching, if someone in my lesson looked that scared, I would definitely be trying to make them feel more at ease, not letting them be run away with over a jump!

If you go to a different center, and are taught safely at a reasonable pace, then you won't feel as terrified, I promise.

It's meant to be fun! Also, you can't learn anything while you're that frightened!

I will be honest - the school sounds dangerous at worst, or negligent in pitching the lessons to the skills of the people in the room. Either way, not a great learning environment.

They should not be doing beginners lessons with 'stuff' littering the arena to create distractions and dangers for you and the horse.

I don't think I got rising trot even kind of cracked until after about 6 lessons or so, and even then I was probably over-rising. While it is an up-down movement overall (if you think about what is happening to the top of your head) , the bit that does the work is your pelvis moving up and and forwards. One instructor used to call this hip to hand which confused me for months.

While cantering can be a 'smoother', easier to ride pace, it really depends on the horse, as the transition up and down from trot on some horses can be really uneven and as a beginner really throw you off balance.

I used to be on the upper limit of weight for my riding school, and this meant they put me on the big horses. As I'm only 5ft tall, this meant that I was constantly battling between getting my stirrup leathers long enough to be able to get my leg somewhere near the right place for the horse to feel it, and being able to actually rise smoothly.

Good luck for your next lessons, but don't let this place put you off riding.