Full or part loan in this situation?

[Gargie]

I’ll try and give as much detail as possible...

I do volunteer work at a yard (similar to RDA but not quite the same). I get to ride a horse and have fallen in love with him, I’m the only one who rides him. The registered owner is the daughter of the owner of the farm, she has nothing to do with him and has been up to see him twice in the last year but didn’t ride him.

We have an unofficial agreement in place, I ride when I want but always ask first. I’m very aware that I don’t want to take the piss, and also I don’t take him out to any sponsored rides or anything as I don’t feel I am able to. I also feel like I have to ask permission to do little things like change his noseband/trim his tail and feathers etc.

Currently this horse only cost them a small amount of feed (big fat cob ), front shoes every 6 weeks and the usual wormer etc. There’s no livery cost for him as they own the farm!

So, I’m now in a position where financially I can afford to either have a horse of my own or loan this fella. As much as I’d love my own horse, this guy has stolen my heart and I couldn’t imagine riding anything else now.

They’d happily loan him out to me, he’d have to stay at the current yard (wouldn’t want to move him anyway), but I’m not sure what kind of agreement to ask for. If I have him on full loan they’d be making money off him (I’d have to pay the full livery fee) and for some reason that doesn’t sit right with me .

So, what do you think would be the best option for me? Part or full loan? And what financial agreement do you think would be right?

I think it is only fair that you pay the livery fee, as you would if you got another horse to keep there. Can you afford it? How much time do you want to commit to the horse? It is difficult to say which option would suit you best without knowing your circumstances, and how much, time and money you have available. Whatever you decide make sure you get a written loan agreement setting out who is responsible for what. I think you can find a template on the BHS website.

I'm not sure why it doesn't sit right with you - if he's loaned out fully, you're responsible for his keep - whether with them, or elsewhere (if their agreement allowed for that). They can benefit from keeping their horse on their own land for very little cost (which is more than you imagine, I think), but there's no reason why you should benefit from that too.

I don’t know why it doesn’t sit right with me tbh. When I’ve had loan horses before that have been kept at the yard that the owner owns, I’ve never had to pay the livery cost. Only feed, hay, bedding and shoes.

I can afford it though, and can give more time than I do at the moment, but I wouldn’t actually be able to do a whole lot more with him than I’m doing now, they don’t have a school and he doesn’t like hacking out alone. There isn’t even any where to lunge.

I’ve had a look at the BHS loan agreements and they look good, I’ll use one of them.

I just still don’t know if a part loan of full loan agreement is better

I've always thought that a loan (as opposed to a share) is when you do everything you would were you to own the horse.

So in your case, pay livery, shoes, vets fees. You'd also be able to ride home whenever you want, take him out whenever you want and sometimes be able to move yards if the owner is happy for you to.

It sounds like he's on school livery so is used as a riding school horse, is this right? I would have thought that as part of the loan agreement either he's continued to be used as a riding school horse and you get a discount with your livery (which is usual) or he isn't and I'd expect you to pay the full livery cost.

What would be the chances of you buying him? It might be much easier for you. You have all the expense of owning your own horse but the insecurity of him being taken back otherwise. 😕

Would they consider selling him to you? That way you could move him to a more suitable yard.

I do agree it is a bit cheeky to ask for livery money for a horse that they already own and stable at their own yard as effectively you are helping them out by riding him. I have not charged sharers in similar situations in the past. On the other hand he is their horse and they might be perfectly happy to keep him in a field so you get the advantage of riding him.

I would also add that keeping a horse on your own yard is not free. You still have to cover the mortgage and have costs associated with land maintenance, fence repairs, stable repairs, etc. as well as the other costs you mention.

No it’s not a riding school, it’s an animal therapy place and as they don’t currently have a school the horses aren’t ridden by the students, so he is only ridden once a week by myself.

Yes I understand it’s not free to keep him, I know how much the farm costs a month to run and I also know how much they have coming in from the council for the students! They also do their own hay so don’t have that cost either.

Food for thought though, thanks.

I'm not sure what is wrong with them turning a profit on the fellow if the market rate is above the costs of keeping him.

I loan a horse at £12 a day, three days a week commitment, the going rate around here is £10 a day but I pay more because I didn't want the owners taking too heavy a loss on it and they are very accommodating (£10 a day is a good bit below actual cost of keeping a horse here). This arrangement is still very cheap compared to the other halfs showjumping habit which all in works out at around £9k a year.

(Whispers) making hay is not free, you need fertiliser, weed killer, a tractor, cutting and bailing equipment and manual labour to cut, collect and stack.

To bé fair buying him and moving somewhere with the facilities to get better use of having him probably makes most sense if you can afford it.