Martingales...What type do you use and why?

[OscarWinningActress]

Just that. My coach has recommended one for OscarWinningHorse. She suggested a German/MarketHarborough. Just curious what type you all use for your horses and why? Any tips?

Last time I used one we had a choice of standing or running, most people used running because you couldn't jump in a standing and er...that was it really!
Why does your coach think your horse needs one?

We hack the Connemara out in a Market Harborough to stop her tossing her head. She's a head shaker at certain times (we think fly/midge related) and she would be unrideable otherwise at these times. Not competition legal though and when there are no flies (Winter) we take it off.

My TB came with a running martingale, has always used one up until recently when I decided that I'd try without. He does have a tendency to stick his head up at moments of excitement but I'm going to have a go and see what happens. I use a breastplate (so that I have a built in neck strap) and will see how we go without the martingale piece. We're only autumn hunting at the moment which is quite sedate but hopefully will be able to keep it off once we're hunting properly. At least it would be one little bit less to clean!

What Pixel said - though I use to put the rings of my running on my mare noseband on the odd occasion if I felt she was in a rearing mood

DTB will eventually have a running too I imagine - watching him on the lunge he seems to have rather a high head and its handy to grab onto the neck strap if need be

Did your coach give you a reason for suggesting it?

though I use to put the rings of my running on my mare noseband

Yes I used to do the same, my pony was rather nappy to hack and would rear and spin but no point in buying two martingales when one would do .

Technically, I don't think a market harborough is a martingale. They are more akin to draw reins and have a similar action to them as well. What is her reasoning for the market harborough?

My coach recommended the MH because he raises his neck a little too much. It still allows for lateral movement, which the other kinds don't, and there's less chance of them over-flexing, apparently. I was just wondering if anyone else was using one and whether I need to use it forever. He does go beautifully when he has it on but I don't really like relying on gadgets. Do horses typically grow out of them (DHorse is only 4).

I would say a mh is a training aid more than a martingale. They're a useful piece of kit (used properly like everything else) but I'd say you shouldn't use one all the time really - simply because they are an aid rather than a piece of tack iyswim. I'd use a mh for schooling if it was appropriate, a friend uses hers hacking because her horse needs working in a particular way and it helps but I wouldn't leave it on permanently.

Dm and dp are both in running because they both stick their heads up when excited but don't need anything the rest of the time. Fwiw you can jump in a standing so long as it's fitted properly, I'm not sure why there was a period we were all told you couldn't

YY-I don't use it for hacking, just schooling in the arena. If it's just a training aid how do you know when they are ready to not use it anymore?

Yes, I have used an MH in the past, on a particular experienced horse who was also raising his head and neck too much, and it was in a lesson. Outside of that I have never used a MH - it is far better (in the short term and in the long term) to resort to proper training, rather than a gadget to solve a problem.

Having not seen you or your horse, its hard to determine what would help you best. At 4 years old, your horse may simply not have the strength to carry himself with his neck down, and it would be foolish to resort to a gadget in that case. In general, with many 4 yr olds (of course it depends on the 4 yr old in question), I would be concentrating on getting forward, and not worrying about where the head and neck is at this stage. If your instructor's intent is to teach the young horse where the head and neck should be, then yes, I have seen draw reins (which have a similar action to a MH) used short-term for that, by experienced riders who have brought on young horses before, and who know what they are doing.

A good rule of thumb with horses is, if you don't know what the piece of tack does, don't use it, unless you are under the instruction of someone more experienced than you, who you trust to teach you how to use it wisely. Are you going to have lessons with the MH on? Or has she/he suggested this piece of tack and left it at that? Realistically, I know you don't want a flaming, but it is hard to answer your post without more detail - up to you.

Sorry, I've just seen he's only 4! Tbh I absolutely would not use a mh on a 4yo. They need to learn to carry themselves first. It's not quite the same as draw reins but similar and draw reins on a baby are a big no no. One of the main problems is that you need to be really experienced to know if you're achieving the right effect. It's hard to see from the ground so very difficult on top. It's not just the front end, they need to be properly engaged behind, tracking up well and flowing, that energy is all then captured by your hand in front which brings the front end in correctly. Using a mh is to help when you have all that lovely impulsion from the back but are struggling to contain it nicely at the front. I'd be surprised if you're there yet with one so young. It's incredibly hard work for them and they need really mature musculature to benefit long term. I'm actually quite shocked your instructor has recommended one so young.

Toomuch I suppose we were all told not to jump in a standing because if idiotic people put them on too tight in an attempt to 'tie' their horse's head down then they could get themselves into trouble or at least make things difficult for the horse. Therefore it became a 'rule'?

Argh just wrote a long post and mn lost it

Basically I missed that he's 4. I'm really shocked that your instructor has recommended one so young. It takes a lot of strength to work like that for the horse, musculoskeletal strength is really important. It also takes a lot of skill from the rider. Learning what you are feeling for on an established mature horse like with most other things in riding. I'd say, given the combination of it being new to you and your horse being so young, you should think seriously before using it.

Certainly no one I know (even people who break and bring on for a living) would never let draw reins near a baby and a mh is not that far removed.

Urm, looks like they found it sorry for the duplication!

Yes you're right pixel there was a but of a fashion for tieing their heads down, I'd forgotten about that!

He does go beautifully when he has it on but I don't really like relying on gadgets.

Err, yeah I just noticed this comment as well. Be careful that your lovely young horse doesn't end up 'draw-reined' in order to hold his head and neck down and in. I have had the misfortune of once riding a friends horse who had obviously had this done. The horse had learned that it must not bring its head and neck up, but consequently, it did not have a contact on the reins/bit either. There was a 'nothing' feeling from the horse's mouth when you took up the reins. This is why draw reins/MH are not recommended for young horses as it has the potential to ruin the horses mouth in regards to the contact.

It's not just contact, frequently they have an amazing looking shape to the front end but their back end is dragging along without any engagement. It means they don't respond so well to the leg, jump very flat and have no erm bounce! You'll often see horses who look mismatched, they have lovely muscled neck, shoulders etc but back, bum and thighs are a bit weedy. That's because the front is pulling rather than the back pushing iyswim.

Of course Toomuch, the back end engine is very important as well. I think I am lucky in that I don't have much experience at all with draw-reined horses, and have only ever ridden 1 draw-reined horse in my life, once. Its a hell of a thing to correct though, most likely nigh-on impossible, I'd imagine.

Thanks for all your replies...really interesting information.

zazzles of course I don't want a flaming . I want to make sure I'm doing the absolute best for my young horse. The Internet can be too much of a good thing when it comes to researching these matters as there's SO much conflicting advice. I trust my coach and trainer implicitly...they have over sixty years of experience with youngsters between them and our barn has a great training reputation, which is one of the reasons I chose it, because I knew I wanted a young horse to work with. They both regularly use and reccomend the MH but I want to make sure I completely understand what it's for, that I'm using it correctly, how to spot any potential problems with it's use and what the desired outcome is. I would never just grab a random piece of equipment that I have little experience with and throw it on my horse without trying to learn as much as possible about it's correct usage.

Are you in America Oscar?

Canada, Toomuch

Oh, and yes, I'm using it in my weekly lessons too so I'm using it under supervision. My coach helped me fit and adjust it correctly. I have used draw reins before...I had a very strong, ornery, young (6) TB mare when I was a teenager so I'm not completely new to the concept of those, however it's been a long time since I've used them and the MH is a new piece of equipment to me. From my perspective having used both, the MH does not have as direct an action on the head and neck as the draw reins proper did...without proper impulsion and correct hands and contact it doesn't engage.

Ah, that makes sense. Well if you are in a proper training barn set up then you have a good set up. Here you would probably be on a livery yard surrounded by a group of people who know no more (and possibly lots less) than you but love to lead you to believe they know everything

Using a mh is definitely better than draw reins - which do have their place, don't get me wrong - if you're using it with an instructor present and only for short periods then it could work well. It still makes me uncomfortable to use one on such a youngster though

The main glitch, like I may have mentioned above , is thinking head down is enough. Concentrate on that back end

Thanks, toomuch. That's really good advice. We will both be working on getting our butts in gear .

DHorse is on training board so in addition to full livery he gets ridden once a week by the owner of the barn so I get a chance to watch him in action and see how he's going from the ground. I'm also lunging him once a week too, which gives me another opportunity to watch how he's moving.

Aww OscarWinning I can completely understand where you are coming from. You horse is your pride and joy, and you want to do the absolute best by him/her. If you trust your instructor and she/he has a good reputation bringing on young horses etc as you have described, then I would be far less concerned. Trusting your instructor to take you and your horse through this journey, is a crucible part of owning horses. Good on you for posting though, and seeing a range of opinions.

Thanks Zazzles .