what do you think 'not a novice ride' means?

[Mitchy1nge]

just out of interest, am getting responses from people with very interesting ideas about it

there is obviously no universally accepted definition (if I see it in an ad I assume it is a polite way of saying the horse can be very difficult in any number of ways)

(I do spell out the actual problems but for sake of scaring people brevity they can't go in the actual ad)

I would of thought that yeah, absolute beginners need not apply. Someone with a bit of experience and not someone who has been riding for a few months or even someone who used to ride but hasn't for years and is getting back into it. Most people would understand that.

To me it means you need to feel competent to deal with a problem horse in most circumstances . I would say its usually someone who's riding experience exceeds just having lessons / supervised riding at a riding school . That said my sister rode for years and had her own horse but would still be honest enough to say she needed a horse suitable for a novice to ride( but she can handle anything on the ground ) .

I would say it translates as "experienced owners/riders only" please. It's how I read it, anyway. I'd say that it isn't particularly ambiguous.

I would think likely to be jittery, strong willed, stubborn, or a combination of all of those things. Probably able to be ridden by an adult with experience of riding many different horses. I rode a horse for years and we had that telepathy that builds up, and it was great. Put me on a different horse and I turned into a sack of spuds.

I do think a lot of people read it as "nutter", unless it specifically says that it's not a novice ride due to age/stage of training. In general, not something suitable as a first horse/pony, not ideal for a child (but possibly for an older teenager) and not suitable for someone with only limited experience (e.g. only ever loaned one very quiet horse). Potentially not suitable for someone straight out of a riding school-especially with no experienced back up, or just someone who's never ridden anything that isn't well trained/push-button.

I do wonder if you need slightly more info in the add- if the horse regularly bucks/rears/spooks(dangerously) then I would expect to see that explicitly in the add, so people can make their own minds up about what they can/can't deal with. Equally, if it's a particular problem out hacking or over jumps, I'd expect you to say that. Online, nowadays, people do seem to explain a bit about why they don't think the horse is a novice ride.

I have seen it used to describe anything from a horse/pony that's a bit forward going or tense for a complete beginner, to horses that are really quite dangerous, so I can see how people might misunderstand.

I would like to think it means just what it says. Ie a Novice would be over-horsed. So might have a spook at something, the odd buck, be forward going, etc. I would not expect to turn up and find the horse rears, naps, drops a shoulder at a fence, won't work alone in the school etc. those are not things an "intermediate" rider could necessarily deal with and should be alluded to in the advert.

So essentially I think of it a bit like ski runs. Green is a Novice, can stay on when the horse does what it is meant to. Blue is intermediate and can handle some unpredictability. Red is experienced (me probably) and can deal with some complex issues but due to work/time etc doesn't want the really tricky ones. Black is the one where you can't ever really switch off and have to be at the top of your game every time you get on. I could probably manage those but prefer not to. And Double Black Diamond are the Total Nutters .

The problem is that saying it needs a rider above novice does technically cover all of the above, but I'd link to think it pops them into the blue category.

I think there is also the problem of defining what is actually meant by novice. For a lot of people, a novice owner is someone who has never owned/loaned their own horse before or never ridden outside a riding school. However, obviously riding schools need to distinguish between ability levels, so they may call a rider "intermediate" or even "advanced", when they are not really suitable to take on a not-a-novice-ride horse.

For people buying a horse for the first time (especially non-horsey parents buying for their children), they often think because their child has had a year or so of lessons and can pop a small cross-pole, they are no longer a novice. They don't neccessarily think of the child's ability to solve problems without the back up of a riding instructor telling them exactly what to do.

Also, just because someone has owned say- a safe and sensible cob, does not neccessarily mean that a green horse or one with ishoos is a sensible next step.

I agree with everyone else that you'd expect the horse to be unpredictable and in need of a rider with a secure, independent seat. However in the case of a share it could also mean that the owner doesn't want some ham-fisted sack of spuds messing up her beloved horse's schooling or letting him get into bad habits.

It can mean anything from "won't move for someone that can't ride" to "insane, we couldn't pay you to take it away"

I've been riding for 25 years or so, but being a slightly nervous rider I would be very cautious looking at something that said not a novice ride - and I'm not a novice!

It would suggest to me that the horse might be a bit of a nutter, but I recently went to try out a 'nice, safe' horse that DD could also ride... slight major issues with napping, and it ended up going backwards with front legs off the ground. DD is a better rider than me, but as she's only 12 I wouldn't put her on something that I don't trust myself.

I probably wouldn't enquire about something advertised as 'not a novice ride'. Not because I'm not capable, but more because I don't bounce as well as I used to. However, I can't think of an alternative wording that would make me ask for more details.

I assume that it means 'can be a bit of a nutter'. Have seen it used this week in a loan ad for a horse I know well who is unpredictable, and a bit past the level of just being a bit green. Does stuff like walk into a ditch and refuse to move

haha thanks for all the responses

yes it is a bit too vague isn't it, and I wouldn't be interested in a horse advertised as 'not a novice ride' either - the ski system is brilliant, I would rate him as blue personally (but am used to him of course) but if you are not used to a horse that bucks then I guess it does feel a bit off piste altogether

the trouble is he does really like to keep on bucking when it's someone new until they come off, unless they are extremely business-like from the off, and still - he hates fidgety people

am not doing this anymore, it's no good for him or my nerves or people who say 'I have backed lots of youngsters, I will be fine' but come out of the saddle if he so much as bounces a bit

so, fuck it, we will just make an effort between us to ride him at weekends at least

'not a novice ride as can buck' would solve it. I would contact you about 'not a novice ride' as i'm not a novice and don't care if the horse is just a bit 'unique' but I can't stand horses that take off bucking every time they have a small fright/ feel a bit fresh, drives me insane and I wouldn't contact you and waste your time. Others however wouldn't care in the slightest.

'as can buck' why didn't I think of that, it's simple and conveys well the fact that he might but doesn't always (in fact sometimes hardly ever)

I didn't want to say he does or will buck in certain situations because four years later there is still no real pattern or way of predicting - except we can now safely say he will try it as soon as someone new begins to relax on him.

I would want an explanation as above, e.g. "not a novice ride as can get strong in company" - then the potential buyer can decide for themselves if this is something they can deal with or not.

It also depends on the context, e.g. you would expect a young horse to be be 'not a novice ride' as young horses can have wobbly moments, but if you described a talented competition horse as 'not a novice ride' I would expect more fireworks.

Not a push button ride/ not the type to accept plodding around all the time/ still green/ not as forgiving of 'novice mistakes' (heavy handed/legged/ giving off a lot of nervous energy riders). Or a horse that has a lot of potential and would be wasted with a complete novice.

It wouldn't put me off viewing

Bucks like a wasp under saddle

Would 'not for the faint-hearted' be a little too off-putting do you think?

I had this when I sold one of mine.

Flea bitten gray Arab, snaffle mouth, not novice ride.

I got the following:
What is flea bitten?
Does it have fleas?
My grandaughter has been having lessons for six months - she is very experienced...

In the end only two people viewed her and I sold her to the second one for cheaper than advertised. They just seemed to click, so happy result.

especially 'does it have fleas'

Love that last one. :)

When I sold my mare, I put "not novice ride as needs her rider to be confident. Easy ride for a confident rider" You'd be amazed how many people rang up and asked if she was a confidence giver. "Watch my lips...." [tchhmm]

She just needed to know the person on top was in charge. if you weren't, she was awful: nappy, turn on a sixpence and leg it, etc. But she was a lovely ride as long as she didn't think she had to make the decisions.

As someone said earlier, I do think some riders who have never owned, but are in the "advanced" class at a riding school do sometimes think they're beyond novice. I have owned for 15 years, and like my horses sane. I wouldn't look at a "not novice ride" unless it was one by my own definition above.

To be honest a lot of that was because I didn't want her to go to someone who didn't know what they were doing round her.

Hmm, always a tricky one. I think once that you can really ride, you don't realise how much you're actually doing all of the time. I think that I just sit there on my horse and that he's easy, but if you but a novice rider on him he just stands there at the gate or turns around to come home as soon as it suits. I hadn't realised this until I advertised for a rider while pregnant - that was an interesting experience. I like the line from lovesbeans above 'easy ride for confident rider'.