our stables dont do turn out

[booksinbed]

We love our stables - but they dont do winter tun out exept for muk out and riding time-we are new and didnt know this - but we really llike the folk and we want to stay but are worried for the pony...

24 hrs out is better. Because they are horses, not electric lawnmowers! In the wild they roam free. In captivity, confined, you are going against everything that is natural. They are enclosed. They can't scan for predators. They can't flee if something upsets them. They are alone, which in horse terms means vulnerable. Being in a stable 24/7 is very stressful for a horse.
You have two beasts that are bred to live out in British conditions. They will be fine out. Turn them out soon and they will grow all the coat they need for the wildest weather conditions. Mine have icicles on them in the winter. They are toasty inside their coats. As long as there is somewhere to stand with their backs to a tree, hedge, a hollow in the ground, a wall, they will be absolutely fine.

Believe me, a stabled pony will be more.miserable, bored and crazy than a field kept pony.
True some may nite like being out all the time but a very small.majority

Again dodgy advice!

Even prisoners get exercise time and space to wander!

our conemara tries to go back in the stable at night after ride but i think that is becuase she knows there is hailage there!!as at first she was stabled at night due to fear of her getting too much grass as her prev owner told us to do when we bought her early summer. ...

.....we have started to leave them both out by our instinct and this was encoraged by owners which i support.then the other day they told us about having to come in...so we were going one way and then its gone the other.

Both ponies will be in work over winter - my cob is out condition and sweats easliy - do i let her grow long coat entirley or have a little clip at front...

Its been upsetting reading this thread- i didnt realise it was for some the norm to keep em which is why stupidly i didnt ask when we went there as just thought they are horses and need out !! tho ideally i wd like access to a stable for night if needed, i wd like to keep them out -

Cant stand the idea of separting a creature from its nature- tho i guess we do to some extent by owning them - but that may be another debate and for me its helped me to clarify my responsibility to keeping things as natural as possible - so thankyou .

ps so if out 24 7 and lots of grass in spring/ summer i would need to section off..so dont get too much, and i wd need therefore to check that poss if we do have to change stables b4 we went -to think ahead so dont end up changing stables a lot..any other living out advise wd be mch appricited,the one bout having 2 rugs was good - thanks again.

Here are my ponies looking really miserable and depressed in the snow. (sorry about it being sideways, I cant get it to rotate!)

You may want to section padlock to limit grass anyway too stop them scoffing in spring.

I have to with my shitland because otherwise he ends up the size of a house.

If they are out then there is not so much pressure to ride. If you were ill one day and couldn't manage it then they would be fine out but stabled you would have the hassle of sorting out exercise/food/mucking out etc.

Any ponies I have had have lived out fir the past 5 years. Make sure they have sonera sort of shelter a tree or decent bush is fine. I used to give mine a small feed every day but they did not need it. Keep a hammer next to the water bucket for breaking ice! Take rugs of everyday just for a quick once over
they will be so.much happier outdoors!

Re clipping. If you rug then maybe a belly clip or trace ? Enough to stop to much sweat but still a bit of protection.

that situation would be unthinkable for us, although there is a yard nearby with very restricted winter grazing and consequently the horses and ponies go nuts, churn it up, injure themselves and so on

if you don't have enough grazing for all your liveries to access turnout at least during the day throughout winter then you are overcrowded surely?

I couldn't do it, mine live out all year round barring illness or injuries requiring box rest - this year I might not even rug the pony unless to keep him dry for riding or if it is super cold. My (older) horse was fine with a low trace clip and rugs. They do do the standing forlornly by the gate thing sometimes but usually the haylage rack is full and they survive.

She'll be thinking of her tummy!
You may well need to section off, or up the work as much as you can to work off the grass. Ive said elsewhere, we like ours to come out of winter a bit lean. They only get straw in the field, and only when the snow is down. It gives the grass somewhere to go. As you can see in the video, they were fat as pigs all winter last year!
Theres a school of thought, that a pony on restricted grazing will guzzle all and then fret for what they cant have, whilst a free grazer will pick and choose, and be a lot more relaxed and choosy.
The type of grazing plays a big part too. Weedy thistly poorer pasture wont be as nutrient rich. Ideal for natives. A farm like the one we used to lodge our on, with nitrogen rich, fertilised cattle grass, is very un pony orientated. Our shettie got laminitis there, she was very poorly.
Clipping v rugging is a tough one. Me, id probably hold out as lond as I could, then start with a bib, and see how they got on. You mightnt necessarily need a rug with a bib.

Horses are all individuals, just like people, so they have different needs.

I have known some horses be very settled in 24/7 BUT and this is a huge 'but', they were ridden daily, they were put in the horse walker twice a day and in addition hand grazed twice a day. This kind of care is usually not available in most yards as it is extremely labour intensive.

Most horses do better with as much turn out as possible. It gives them a chance to run around, expend some energy, socialise with other horses and, very importantly, eat continuously with their heads down (this helps digestion and avoids problems like colic and ulcers). Ideally horses should have forage 24/7, so in the winter when there is no grass you should supplement with hay in the field. If the horse puts on weight easily you need dry hay of low nutritional value, if the horse is on the thin side you may need do add haylage and/or hard feed.

Many horses can live out 24/7. This depends on a number of factors such as whether they feel the rain/cold, whether they have field shelters or natural shelter in the form of trees and hedges, whether they are clipped, etc. Native breeds are usually quite hardy and can live out, if you have something like an Arab which is bred to deal with extreme heat, it may need stabling at night. In general if you see the horse losing weight and more food is not helping you may need to consider stabling. If a horse is fence pacing or standing at the gate neighing, it may be telling you it wants to come in.

It is worth having a back up stable even for horses that live out 24/7 so that you have a dry place to groom and tack up, as well as somewhere to stable them if they are ill.

To keep horses turned out you need suffient acrage. The BHS recommends 1.5 acres for the first horse and 1 acre for every horse thereafter, but it varies wildly with the conditions of the land. For example, in clay soil you may need a lot more land, fenced into a lot more paddocks to avoid poaching by the gates and well used areas. Grass does re-grow in spring but if the field gets terribly trashed it may need re-seeding and resting. Some yards have a 'trash paddock' for very wet conditions that gets sacrificed to save the other paddocks for spring when the grass returns.

The conditions mentioned are preventable or treatable. Rain scald is rare and if your horse has a rug on it's not an issue. Mud fever is common but if the yard has hard cored gates and well managed fields it may not be an issue. There are also many products out there that keep legs dry or treat mud fever. Weight loss can usually be managed with more feed.

If you keep a horse in 24/7 you need to manage all the accumulated energy. You may have ridden problems like running off in canter, jogging, rearing or bucking, and you may have handling problems like pulling away, rearing, and just generally feeling too full of life! It all depends on the amount of work you do with your horse, the amount of energy you put in (feed) and the amount of energy you let them expend naturally (turn out). Get the balance right and everyone is happy!

Our show horses go out after HOYS when they are roughed off - and they live out for 3 months with no rugs (shock horror). They have a good holiday and come back fresh in January (where they still get lots of turn out)

May be consider turning your pony away for a month or two to give them a break - they really do appreciate it.

This would give you time to organise a yard with proper turnout. 24 hour stabling will send the sanest of ponies completely mad!

It would be an absolute no-no for me too. My ex point to pointer came off a yard where he was in almost 24/7 except for 2 hours grazing and time on the walker. He was dead confused to start with when I turfed him out, blanket clipped, in March and stood by the gate asking to come in after 2 hours. Within a month he'd turned from a routine obsessed lunatic to a chilled out, well exercised and happier horse.

The only time he stays in is the night before hunting and if he needs box rest -currently he doesn't even have access to a shelter, just good hedges and a big oak tree. Last winter he was out like this, fully clipped all year. I have to move him shortly and where we are going prefers them in at night if the ground is wet, but otherwise is happy for them to be out.

You will be happier and your ponies will be much happier with a decent amount of outside time - it also relieves the pressure of absolutely having to exercise them properly every day - if they are out, a day off mooching about in a field won't do any harm, but there is no way you can do that if they're in all the time.

i - thankyou all for yr advice.v much appriciated.
Have been looking at options all day.so far i have-
1,stay at current lovely yard - they have said if we pay addit 20 quid pw - ie £ 80 pw for the two ponies we can have access to anothe rfeild and share with another persons horses on yard and they can have turn out x 3 or 4 pw.
2, another local yard does turn out, but does not have a school which is quite imp as ive got my learner plates on!!! but has hacking.maybe go there for winter ..but cant remmber what time it gets dark in deep winter as there is no flloodlit school which we have at current yard -therefore would dd be able to ride after school ??We cd get there for three thirty...never been on a yard when dd loaned with no school so have no idea what thats wd be like and how wd i and dd have lessons..
3, poss option of 24 hour live out only with no stable as back up if ill.have a school.
Any comments folks or ideas re what to consider /factor in...my head is exploding-!! if i had more experince under my belt then it may be a tad better ...but im finding it hard to make decsions without experience -all i have at present is my gut which tells me my priority is to have them out - but i do feel concerned that without a school in one case, or back up of stable in another its hard to know what other priorites may be and how to choose well.

Re. riding in the winter. You probably have a max of a hour and a half of natural light from 3.30.

You need to factor in getting ready to ride time too.
I wouldst be happy being out hacking in anything less than daylight . Once its starts to get dark it can be dangerous no matter how fluorescent you are. Not just cars to factor in but where you are riding...safety etc

If yours are stabled alot then you have to ride...its not fun in the dark with.no lights !

Does the 24.7 place have a school with lights?

I would say a school is very handy in winter . Sometimes you debt want to hack out in the cold and wet and could squeeze in a lunge instead!

they have said if we pay addit 20 quid pw - ie £ 80 pw for the two ponies we can have access to anothe rfeild and share with another persons horses on yard and they can have turn out x 3 or 4 pw.
WTF! They saw you coming!!! Cheeky buggers! Theyre taking away your grazing for the winter, but you can have 50% of it back, shared with someone else, for an extra £20 per week!!!!

We dont have a floodlit arena, the girls lunge in a small yard, in the reflected light from the yard, or they ride in our small paddock, in the dark. If they get their fingers out, and dont faff about too much when they get there, they can manage a quick leg stretch before dark. You just need to be mindful of the ground conditions. Winter is crap, but you can work round the crapness.
Does 3/ say that the 24hr turnout place has a school? If so, Id go there.

bonkey - the 24 /7hour turnout has a school- they will let us know in a few days if willing to have us as they only normally do ponies who have the option of a stable which they can go in if ill.therefore we will be the only ones 24 /7 out and they wd if they give us the go ahead require us to have a back up plan have a back up plan to stable somewere if needed..no one lives on site there.

saggy - our normal field will not be used after a set time- then it will be in or v limited turnout as am told its poor (l in terms of drainage I wd imagine).at the mo the gate has deep mud which sucks wellies off yr feet feeling, and its waterlogged in most of field ...which may improve if we got a cold winter but the stable say that they make a decision its all in at a certain point- with v occ turnout of x 1 a week - i think--- exept for those who have the more drained fields and the people who have those pay more to sort of have first dibs i guess and had this arrangement before we came..so if we want to join in that arrangement we can if we pay more..

I would go to the 24.7 place.

A school will be great for the winter!

Plus a stable.may come.up and I am sure if you need one that badly then someone would help you out there if need be.

No brainer ! :)

bonkey - cheers - fingers crossed they say yes ....!!!!

24/7. We don't have a stable, and dpony lives out with no field shelter. At the moment he's away from his herd group as is in the diet paddock (yard has starvation and diet paddocks depending on what they need), but if it stays colder he'll go back to the herd where they sleep up together. Rugless will help him lose more weight.

In spite of being a grey and mostly unrugged (he'll go in a full neck, no fill to keep clean once it gets muddier), he's only had one tiny patch of mud fever and never rain scald

hi all- decision time-...
option one-
been up to current lovely stabletonight.they have agreed turnout x 3 pw mon .wed .fri .we ride sat, sun anyway.we have to pay ten pounds pw extra for this as our current field too wet this is an well drained other one which need s to be shared.advantage - lovely folk, advice, ,school with floodlight,hacks nearby.total- 80 PW.current stable feel we will loose shoes in this wet ground if out daily anyway.have lost 2 in 4 weeks.advantage - dont have to rush toride agaist the clock.
option two- 50pw .cple hours turn out daily,no school.hacking good.concerns are that dd wd have to rush to ride after schooll in winter .
please cd i have some opinions - feel ill !!!! ps advantage option two cash - 3£ 30PW cheaper and turn out but less riding /schooling.
we did have option 3 which was 24/7 turn out no stable and a school but it look s like no go.i really love ist stable - bt dd worried and feels daily turnout important.i just want to put ponies ist.

Seriously, I wouldn't go with either. Not for all the floodlit schools and good advice on the planet! Out all day, in at night at the very least. Keep looking. Minimal turnout is just about ok with TB types, but natives will go spare!
If you go with 1/ you'll need to exercise them every day that don't have turnout.
If you have your ponies best interests at heart, then turnout is most important.

And I still think your current place is on the con! They want to charge you more for less!

thanks saggy- ie spent two days looking and using all my contacts - these are the choices left - im so fed up.

i wnat to ask why more for less!! but am getting a bit stressed and i m not trusting my judgemant anymore !!! ahhhh!!

ps the current stable have said that if thet go out every day they will lose shoes due to wet - we have lost two in four week s .....

When I worked full time I accepted that I could not ride every day in winter.

I have never kept my horse anywhere with a school, let alone a floodlit one.

But going out every day is a must (unless the weather is totally shite).