Rescued a horse in Jan, things not getting any better. WWYD? (Long)

[hickerybobp]

Hi all, I rescued a horse back in January, and posted for advice here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_tack_room/1378076-Advice-needed-on-extremely-thin-horse-I-have-rescued-please-help

Things don't seem to be going to plan at all! If I'm honest it has been one problem after another with her.
She is eating larger amounts now at meal times but is still not putting on any weight. She has been wormed so that shouldn't be an issue. I have stayed with feeding chaff, speedibeet, but have changed from calm and condition to Allen and Page weight gain. She also has veteran cubes now.

I live on a hill farm and as such the weather here gets pretty bad even when it's ok in the village. She really struggled in the field when it was cold or snowy, and was actually struggling to get around and was yawning etc. At this point I decided to bring her in until the weather improved. The weaving stopped thankfully, and she seemed grateful to be in.

One of the biggest issues at the moment is her feet. We had some problems with lameness in her back leg, but this went with lots of walking and cold hosing. The farrier also told me she has the start of navicular in one of her fronts and slight ringbone in the other... and now she has developed thrush. The foot affected with thrush has a very deep frog and has never been in good condition but my farrier did his best with what he had to work with.

My vet is a typical farm vet, he took one look at her and said "oh dear" in a way that implied that it was going to cost me a small fortune and probably not do that much to benefit her. His advice has actually been to carry on as I am and then have her put down after giving her some time turned out in the summer as he doesn't think she will cope with another winter.

I just feel that I'm trying so hard with her but every time I start making some progress with one problem another one comes along to replace it. There are more issues that I haven't even listed here and at the moment it's getting harder and harder to go out and see her as I find it so depressing. I've really tried so hard and I've spent a lot money I didn't even really have and it seems there's no light at the end of the tunnel. :(

I suppose I'm just looking to see what other people's advice/opinions would be if it was you in my situation. I've never had to face having a horse put down before and as much as I know it's getting more and more likely, I still want to see her make a miraculous recovery and be the happy healthy horse I had in mind when I started what I thought was the road to recovery with her.

I've spent a lot of sleepless nights worrying about her and have often found myself quite upset at the idea that she might have to be put down. I would appreciate any input at all and apologies for my long, miserable rant but I just needed to get it all out and I don't have many horsey friends to empathise with me.

Thank you all again.

Hi, firstly well done for all that you've done for her. Do you know how old she is? I agree with your vet, carry on how you are and see how she goes. If she doesn't pick up a lot over summer, so she can carry weight into next winter, perhaps think about giving her one last summer at grass.

What is she fed now? Hard food- what and how much, how often? Hay or haylage, how much? Could you try cortaflex supplement for her stiffness?

I've found that hydrogen peroxide from the chemist, diluted with the same amount of water and sprayed/poured on daily will help clear thrush up. It sort of fizzes when you pit it on. Do dilute or it will turn your hands white!

Good luck with her, hopefully she will really pick up with the spring grass. Have you had her teeth done?

Hi there, she is 23 now, but I was told she was 19 when I first went to see her, only upon getting home and really looking at her passport (all in german) did I realise she was 22/23 this month. She has hay in the feeder all the time, and 2 meals a day each consisting of 1 and a half scoops speedibeet (soaked), chaff 2 scoops ish, weight gain 1 scoop (again soaked), and veteran cubes half a scoop. She has a scoop of cubes in the day aswell between her morning and evening feed.

She used to have haylege, now we can only get hay. Since being on the hay she has gone from drinking 2-3 buckets of water to 6-8 buckets a day. I knew she'd want to drink more but this seems like an awful lot, is this about normal? She is 16.2hh.

Her teeth are actually about the only thing she doesn't have a problem with.

Oh, I should probably add that although her appetite has picked up from when she arrived, that she isnt a greedy horse and tends to just pick at her feed when she wants it or eat her favourite bits first.

Do you know what breed she is?

It's possible she could really pick up this summer and go on for years, but equally possible you might be able to just let her have one more good summer. Was she not fed at all when you took her on, or poor even though fed?

Have you considered trying something like boiled linseed to add condition?

Is there a reason you use both weight gain mix and veteran mix? Would be tempted to plump for one or the other, personally.

Blue chip could be an option?

Can you get another feed in there somewhere, the more feeds you can split over, the better.

6-8 buckets seems a lot but mine do drink much more on hay too. Depends on you bucket size too I suppose! You said she's mainly in? So no moisture from grass. Maybe worth mentioning to the vet next time he's out though.

Great that her teeth are good, it gives her the best chance of making the most of her food.

Re. the picking at food, could you add molasses or apple juice to tempt her more?

Have you had her worm counted? Any blood tests?

Sorry for all the questions!

Rescue centres and/or feeding helplines should be able to help you devise a weight gain feeding programme for her. Pink powder is great for putting on weight, but I would speak to a specialist as well. You may also have to keep her in at night when it's cold, but if that stresses her then it's not a solution. It's always worth running bloods to check for any problems.

As for the problems:

• navicular and ringbone: you need a decent equine vet to look at her for both of these. They can't be diagnosed by a farrier and you need the vet to prescribe anti-inflammatories and pain killers. The vet will advise you on the long term prognosis for both.

• trush: this is a common problem, it should get better if you can clean her foot with hydrogen peroxide and it should improve as the weather dries out.

To be fair from what you say the situation is not that bad, but PTS is always a subjective decision so if you think the horse is suffering then it is 100% the right thing to do.

She is a trakehner, and apparently did very well in dressage a long time ago. (but I dont know how much of that is true considering the sellers other lies).

When I first went to view her she was not fed at all, there was no grass in the field and she was sharing with 6 or 7 youngsters, so would be pushed off any feed that was given. When I went to view her she and the others were hidden away, to the point where there was no gate at all into the field, I had to climb 2 fences to get to the field she was in, the owner just said "climb over here, then walk across that field, then behind those trees, over another fence. She's the black one" I also noted that in the mud etc, there weren't any foot prints at all other than mine leading up to the field.

I hadn't thought of linseed, will google about that in a minute.

I actually started the veteran cubes because somebody told me to try it, so I started adding it to her feed and just continued doing so. Do you think I should stop?

Just had a look at the blue chip stuff, looks good and actually might be worth a try! Have you had any success with it yourself?

I haven't had a worm count done, and was planning on worming her again soon, before she starts going back out in the day into the field that I've been resting (got very muddy etc around the gate and feeder).

I haven't had any blood tests done, I'm not even sure of the costs. Do you think that would be worthwhile?

I let her out the other day into the yard while I was mucking out etc, and she actually seemed very bright. She was playing (pleased to be out) and being very affectionate. Came when she was called and just walked into the stable after me. The next day she seemed run down again, it's often like this, she has good days and bad days.

Thanks for the replies btw :)

Yes blood tests are worthwhile, especially with an elderly horse that is not putting on weight. Worm counts should really also be part of your routine.

Unfortunately life with elderly pets means a lot of vet bills...

Is she in 24/7 now? I appreciate she was losing weight, but she may well get very stiff in all the time. Ideally she needs to be sheltered from the cold/wind/rain, but get as much time out, walking about during the day, to keep her supple.

She is in all the time at the moment, I let her have a stroll around the yard while I muck out and I walk her. Sadly, when she was out during the day not only did she struggle in the field (was visibly in discomfort and didn't move about much as walking was hard with her stringhalt) when the weather was bad, but it actually made her weaving far worse when she was stabled, and she also started to weave at the field gate :(

To be honest most feedback I have had (even from vets) is that it isn't worth spending too much money on, and that there will be no huge improvement/miracle. As I said, around here it is all farm vets and tbh they view horses a bit like livestock.
She is quite shocking to look at with a loss of muscle on her bum, though that has improved from when she arrived but still doesn't look good. I actually have pictures but not sure if I should upload or not.... I have pictures of when she arrived and could take a more recent one, you can see some improvements in her coat and a small amount of weight has been put on, but it's nowhere near as much as I would have hoped for. I took pictures when she arrived as I was planning to show them to the RSPCA, and report the lady I got her from, sadly they can't/won't do anything.

I honestly don't know what is best and I'm finding it quite hard to gauge what quality of life she is actually getting at the moment.

I will go through all the replies though and research all your suggestions, even if it doesn't save her at least I will feel as though I've done all I can for her this summer.

Booboostoo, do you know the cost of having her put on painkillers/anti-inflammatory long term? If the vet was to recommend it. As I said, I can sometimes see she is in discomfort and would like to make sure she comfortable for the remainder of her days (whether it be months or years). I know cost can vary a lot from vet to vet, but a ball park figure would be really useful.

We feed Equi Jewel to our pony who drops weight easily, it's brilliant and the oil seems great for his joints. It's about £35 a sack and lasts us a month.

I would disagree about the blood tests tbh, especially if you don't have loads of money. You could spend thousands to find out what is wrong, only to discover that she is an old mare who has had a hard life (which you know already). Start giving her cod liver oil in every feed (it works wonders for my elderly, arthritic greyhound and is cheap), rug her to keep her warm and just carry on with what you're doing. The warmer weather and spring grass will probably help her to pick up. If not then I think you need to bite the bullet and have her put down.

I would get an equine podiatrist to look at her feet. They take a more holistic approach and feel that navicular is caused by bad trimming and shoeing.

I'd also have her out 24/7 moving.

Not sure about the feeding, although if she's had the equivalent of an eating disorder and malnutrition it's not going to be cured overnight - but a good summer of grass will help.

So for me, feet and grass, and if you need to euthanase her, so be it.

It's a very difficult decision, but if you could get a specialist equine vet out to her, even the once, perhaps they could help you evaluate her quality of life. If you conclude that she is struggling, PTS would be the humane thing to do. There are worse fates for an animal than PTS and you would be a responsible owner making that decision.

I assume she has company in the field, so the weaving is not caused by the stress of being alone?

Bute, the most common long term anaelgigic/anti-inflammatory, costs about 0.70p per 1gr satchet. Her weight and the amount of pain she is in will determine how many satchets she needs a day. Some elderlies just need have a satchet a day to keep them happy but it depends.

Sorry rushing (so haven't read entire thread)

Have you checked her iron and other mineral levels (caused by lack of proper feed in previous home)? A severe mineral imbalance could be the cause of excessive drinking ...or kidney probs

I second splitting feeds if poss, seeking advice from a rescue centre and the odd linseed mash.

I was going to suggest teeth as well but see that they are ok.

My only other suggestion/question is: does she have a companion?? Sometimes lone, elderly horses can pick up wonderfully if they have a friend (doesn't necessarily need to be a horse, could be a sheep or a donkey). I know someone who adopted another elderly horse for her own elderly horse ifyswim. I know this potentially involves more money/work although I am sure if you advertise what you are doing you could get willing helpers (my friend did this too!)

Last point: don't hesitate to ask for help with this; from your local rescue centre, riding centre, local horse owner. The horse community are a dedicated lot and (I've found from personal experience) always willing to help someone out. Even if they can't do anything practical to help, having an experienced eye to look her over and someone to bounce decisions off will help relieve some of the weight from your shoulders.

It could just be that she is naturally coming towards the end of her life and so it goes with elderly horses good one day and not-so-good the next. I guess you know the time has come to put her down (sorry to be so blunt) when, having tried the best you can to put everything right within the resources you have, the bad days outweigh the good.

And if/when this turns out to be the case, then she is very lucky to have had you as her owner in her last year and you can give yourself a huge pat on the back for having done everything you could for her.

Good luck

I sympathise because I had to have my old boy put down last November (he was 26).

There comes a point at which, no matter how much you spend and care, their quality of life is such that euthanasia is the kindest thing.

If she can't go out in comfort I'd suggest that she may be reaching this time and maybe your money would be more effectively spent on another horse.

Well done for everything you have tried to do for her so far. X

I think you are probably reaching the end with her, we can go on and on trying with all sorts of remedies and medication but sometimes nothing works and we are no further on.

It's certainly worth trying a rescue place or similar for their input, perhaps even ask them to come and have a look at her to see if they have any new ideas. I have to say that from what I've read, that the kindest thing to do is keep feeding her, let her have some sunshine and spring grass and see how it goes. If there's no improvement in a couple of months then you may need to take the decision to have her put to sleep. You must remember that if you do this, then you have at least given her a kind few months, that you tried your best and it's not your fault.

Hi,
You seem to have received some really good advice already from the others posts. Only thing to add is that weight gain can take a long time if the horse was in poor condition to start, 2 months of winter is not much, by mid-summer after some good weather and good grass she may start to look and feel a bit better.

Hi all, Thanks so much for the advice. She is rugged in the stable, and has a turnout rug aswell for when I do let her out. She does have field companions, a welshie and a mule. Though she doesnt seem to bother with them much and tends to be a push over around food with them aswell which in my experience is a bit unusual and not mare like. There is a big hay catcher in the field, and she would always stand back from it when the boys were eating. I have always brought her in for feeds as i know my greedy welshie would stuff his face with her feed.
I think if it is dry at the end of the month I will start letting her out for a few hours in the day, and see how she gets on.
When I first got her I took a friend with me to see her, and she said that the horse could either be a money pit that would never recover or could pick up with just a bit of feeding. I spoke to my DP about it and we agreed to set a limit on how much we would spend ie. no massive vet bills. I have already gone way over budget in just the past 2 months. So as much as I know it would be a good idea to pay a lot of money for a vet to investigate everything, I dont know if its financially a good idea especially if she has to be put down anyway.
Infact I have spent so much on her that I considered sending her to a full retirement livery, as it would work out cheaper than what I have been spending myself with her living here.
Thanks again everybody, its just really hard to know whats best.

I think loads of expensive vet work-ups are unnecessary on a 23yr old horse with possibly years of health problems to resolve, they may not get to the bottom of her problems and even if they do they aren't necessarily going to be able to cure her. Her thrush should be easy to treat with h2o2 as the other posts have suggested, ringbone and navicular if mild should be manageable with bute and a good farrier (ask the vet next time he's on the farm if you're not sure). her weight gain will take time - make sure she has access to ad-lib good quality hay, as much water as she needs and the hard food she is already on. You've already de-wormed her and have her rugged. I can't see you can do much more for her.
About 3yrs ago I took on an underweight horse with loads of problems. It took 6months before he started to look cared for (i.e. shiney coat and bit of weight), after 6months he was in light work for 1yr with a few weeks off due to lameness issues, he gave a lot of people a lot of pleasure in that year he worked and it was worth every bit of the 6month battle before hand. However after 1 yr he went severely lame again and after 3months I decided enough was enough. My vet, like yours, advised that his problems were unresolvable and I should be happy that he had one last year of 'the good life', I decided to have him PTS at the end of the summer, his last days were out at grass enjoying the sunshine and I don't think i could have done any more than that.
I hope this helps.
Good Luck

Yes, yes, yes! Stop throwing money at the vet - as dappleton says, this isn't a 4* center and not everything needs to be fixed. If she's old and stiff and a bit lame so what? Lots of us feel like that! ;)

(center = eventer)

Hi, just wanted to add a couple of weight gain tips.

First of all, have you tried a lick? The molasses ones are great, and help them get any extras they need. I think it is Horslyx?

Feed balancers are very good, I used something called Pure Grow 28 from sharp nutrition (less than £10 a sack) and it is fab.

Baileys do a feed called Baileys no1 which is designed for elderly/poorly horses, it is a bit like bran and you have to feed with a balancer but it is very good.

I have recently switched to Simple Systems feed. Unbelievable stuff, not too ££ and they are so knowledgeable and helpful.

Personally I would try the bute too, nothing wrong with taking the pain away, let the horse enjoy the summer and see how things go.

Good luck, weight gain is very hard!

Lots of good advice here but I can't help thinking you've just got her through the hardest months of the year when putting weight on a poor horse can be a bit of a losing battle. Now is the time when you can expect to start seeing a difference if there is going to be any. If you don't feel ready to turn her out yet can you pull some fresh vegetation from the hedgerows for her? It is sure to perk up her appetite if nothing else. Our oldies love wild parsley and goosegrass, plus dried nettles are really good for them.

I know it's hard, but I'd honestly consider letting her go.
She is elderly, has back trouble, lameness, ringbone, navicular, thrush, muscle wastage, you can't get her weight up, shes not eating, you say there are other issues. The yawning you mentioned could well be because she is in pain.
You've given her a loving home, care and attention, but honestly, what realistically are her long term prospects?

Poor you, you are very brave to take her on. At 22 it is hard to put condition on a poor horse.

firstly I wouldnt rush to turn her out. My old girl was quite happy to stay in when it was cold. put her out for a couple of hours max if the weather is good and leave her in if it is cold and wet. I would give her some bute - a sachet a day as it will help her aches and pains and she might perk up a bit. Drinking excessively could be a sign of cushings or something similar. Has she got a strange coat? Scrub her feet out with a soluton of househoold bleach every day for thrush. and give her high calorie food. Maybe pour some oil and molasses into her feeds for the extra calories.

But seriously, you might think about putting her down. I put my 25yr old down in the summer when she kept getting cast and would go out into the field and just lie down after an hour or so. She looked great but she was just tired.

I also rescued a horse that we had to put down as she had fistulus withers and the infection had spread up her spine, as she had been neglected for so long. It is heartbreaking, but sometimes the only thing you can do for best.