Giving up my horses - unthinkable?

[MitchieInge]

I'm just digesting a very difficult conversation with the woman who shares my pony, in which one of the things she raised was whether I should consider putting them both (horse and pony) out on loan.

I think there are a few things behind it, she shoulders a lot of the worry and she would in many ways like the pony full time and closer to her, but she has well grounded concerns about my ability to look after them. I'm shit in the winter anyway and then the added problem of my hip still not working properly. Now my car is dead and I haven't been to see them for ages I think she is right to be worried. I'm not in the financial position I started out in where I can manage to repair or replace vehicles quickly. Plus I had a hospital admission last year and am quite up and down and keep losing farriers :(

The way I look at it is that I pay someone to do them every day, I have the pony sharer and the horse sharer and that between us they are cared for. They would never not be cared for. But the pony has bog burn and has had to be stabled, the girl who does them for us doesn't have time to muck out - she just did their feet and rugs by or in the field each day - AND she is leaving at the end of the month.

How can I weigh up what she is saying and respond in the best interests, primarily of the horses but also everyone concerned? It's painful that she has a point but I think it might finish me off if I put them both on full loan. Welcome your thoughts on this.

Horses for courses, Saggy: two of ours come in at night, are rugged, fed, etc. That's because they are in full work. In old pony's case, he's finely built, getting older and enjoys his comforts. In new pony's case she's clipped so she can work. Neither of them are overweight, arsey, obsessive or any of your other observations.

DH and my more hardy horses are out full time, very light work, and would be less content if managed like the ponies.

I'm not pointing it out because I'm miffed by what you said (all right, I am a bit) but because it absolutely illustrates the issue here: that we all have our own way of doing things and if the horses needs are met it's not for someone else to criticise or know better.

Mitchy, sounds like you've got it covered well enough. Not long till spring. Probably don't fuck sharer off till you've got another lined up though.

x-posted with you earwiggle

I think I will find a replacement person to do the daily checks, and remind the sharer that the pony isn't for sale, he isn't going out on full loan, he's not moving anywhere and that ultimately I have to organise their living arrangements and care around what suits my family - accommodating her needs as far as possible and appreciating her help etc but if she wants a full time pony close to where she is moving she might need to buy one

Very sensible Mitchy.

Tbh, I was probably a bit like that at 18/19 after being brought up in a very pony club way. Racing certainly changed my view on things!

Sounds about right Mitchy!

then x posted with you older!

yes there's a huge range of acceptability I think

a horse in our field is not even checked every day, he might be now it's winter but in summer he was left to his own devices and looked over a few times a week - it's not what I would want for mine but did he come to harm? No

in contrast others are brought in and lovingly polished all over every day and pampered. I'd love to be like that but have to be in the mood and have the time and energy. But that's exactly why I have sharers really!

When you drive around you hardly ever see horses/ponies now without rugs - it is the exception rather than the rule.

My welshie, who is nearly 20 is as fat as butter (which causes problems in itself in the summer), has a coat a polar bear would be jealous of and lives on dhorses leavings. I have had endless people saying he should be wearing a rug, in at night, fed twice a day etc etc. He does have a rug, but last winter when it was -18 I couldn't do up the belts!

Dhorse is a full TB, fully clipped and lives out, unless I want him in for cosmetic reasons or he's lame. He has a damn good rug, is fed a 3/4 scoop of light mix twice a day and has hay as and when - and is flourishing. He exercises himself in the field, and keeps warm by galloping about and is thriving. He came to me from a pt-pt yard, stressy and thin from being kept in almost 24/7 and is so much happier and laid back now. The yard did their best for him, but when you have 10+ horses they couldn't turn them out all the time - he had more horse company there which I know he misses but you can't win em all!

We each find the best way to do what suits us and our horses, and no-one should be telling you what to do, unless their health and wellbeing is threatened, which it obviously isn't. We tend to see horses as humans and molly coddle far too much.

does anyone know what the going rate should be for freelance help? Price per hour or per horse or minimum wage if unqualified/under 18?

it's pretty cheap, what I'm paying now, because the girl is already on site working for someone else and we worked out a price per job per horse so, I don't know £2.50 to change/check a rug or whatever. It sounds low but she gets paid for doing them both every day whether we need her or not so if sharers a and b are there four times a week between them she still gets a full week of pay even if she only does three days

We're at a flexible yard, mainly DIY but they are happy to do what you need. I pay £120 a month in care costs for yard owner to:
feed 2 ponies, change rugs and turn out (7 days a week)
Muck out (mon-fri)
Morning haylage and water to fields for all 4 and check over DH and mine,
deliver evening haylage for live-out horses.
We do all the evening jobs

May give you some idea of what you should be paying for what you need doing? (although of course YO is on site and does lots of horses so probably charge less)

I can't believe I was so ready to think 'yeah she's right, I am too rubbish to have horses' although it has galvanized me a bit, with the car anyway, so an ill wind etc

do have a tendency to let people take over, if they want to do the grunt work I don't stand in their way. It doesn't mean it won't get done.

I used to freelance (8yrs ago) and I charged 6 pound an hour, but if only one hour it would be 10 and it worked out quite well as I had a couple of jobs in the same villages morning and night on the way to and from my main job.

Wrt horses living out, when our TB came out of racing (oct 06) he spent a week in a stable at night, then went into a field with a shelter, 2 NZ rugs on and a round bale of haylage for company. It was the best thing for him.

mine love living out, they look a bit scruffy obviously but they love it

am starting to simmer a bit now (delayed reaction!)

was thinking £8 to £10 an hour

I think that sounds reasonable.

Ours go out every day for about 3hrs at this time of year and up to 12hrs in the summer, but as we are so near a main road they can't stay out over night

thanks for helping me think this through

just need to vent a bit really, spoke to her a minute ago and asked if she had any problem with the level of care provided by the girl we pay and she said 'no no, not at all but she is leaving' so I made her say it again, that there was absolutely no issue with the standard of care and she started going on about it feeling it was unfair to ask so much of this girl (who wanted to do it for free anyway, we had to make her take the money so it was more official) and how she can't do it every day and feels one of us should be there every day and if it wasn't for her (sharer) and the girl all these dreadful things might happen so I just said ok, bye and hung up. I can't really deal with all the what ifs, I prefer to address stuff as it happens.

She's obviously really stressed at the moment. Better see how things settle once she's moved. It's a shame because I don't like what I'm seeing and hearing and what that says about her but nothing stays rosy forever does it?

might as well finish my rant before heading off to garage in perilous conditions!

cost of pony (living in with bog burn) per month at moment:

£30 field
£125 stable
£40 bedding and hay

free haylage in field but that was because I wasn't using the stable but wanted it in case of emergency and farmer/yard owner wouldn't take a contribution to haylage - that's another £32 roughly

sharer's contribution per month £30 plus insurance that she took out when I cancelled mine (I have a lot of animals, cancelled all the insurances and just put the money into the general veterinary contingency fund as seems a bit more useful, unless they all need surgery at once) that's her choice of course

I haven't cared about this until now, but if accusations of neglect are going to start flying around maybe it's worth pointing out?

oh scrap the £40, it's £125 for stable, straw and hay

even so, she is not paying nearly half is she

and the field is £60 per horse not £30

argh numbers

Hahahaha, she thinks she can get a better deal for 30 a month? Good luck to her!

What is bog burn? Same as mud rash?

Older, that was actually the point I was trying to make! it was late, I was tired
Mitchy, yes things would be different if she and the helper were t there, but presumably, you would replace them, so what would be the problem?!
I used to work freelance, and £8-10 is what I would charge.

No, if you google bog burn and feathers or feathered horses you'll see - it's from standing in the swamp by the haylage. Acres of dry field but of course he stands in the swamp most of the time. Amazingly horse is fine, no mud fever. And pony so far happy to be in at night.

It's her lack of confidence in me that is the problem, and she has a point about forgetting the farrier and so on and am very grateful to her for dealing with it but less happy about the rest! And I think she forgets that it often works out 'cheaper' to pay someone £8 an hour than to spend the same on petrol there and back, plus your own time. But however you look at it, my horses my money my decisions?

Yes Mitchy, your horses, your decisions :)

Are they shod? Do your own feet! Cut out the middle man!

Horse absolutely has to be shod in front if I want to ride him (and don't want him in a puddle of blood) but the other six feet are happy as they are.

Maybe when he retires he can be barefoot, but that's a way off I hope.

I thought it was illegal to perform farriery unless you're registered, or is that only if you do it for money? (sorry, off track)