Freelance groom rates

[roadkillbunny]

I am officially setting out as a freelance groom when my youngest starts full time school next September and need to get my business plan sorted out as soon as possible so I can start getting myself fully ready.
My problem right now is I am unsure what my rates should be!
I am doing some work already (one of the reasons I decided to go with it was I kept getting work when I wasn't even looking for it!) for people in my village, I can't take much outside the village just now as I don't have a car so this means that the people I am working for just now are all friends (small village) so I tend to feel awkward asking for too much from them (but they are being fab about spreading the word and giving me great references and opportunities).
The core of my business is going to be covering people who keep their horses at home and need cover for holidays/winter/busy work periods and the such like.
I offer everything from simple poo picking to full livery service. At the moment I am just charging something around the minimum wage mark for poo picking (unskilled, no responsibility for the animals) and for example I have 2 ponies for 4 days over Christmas requiring morning and evening feeds and rug changes and I am charging them £40 for this (I am also looking after the family dog and other house pets, probably not something I would take on for a non friend but would consider it, I am way undercharging for the dog and co (£30 for the 4 days), I already haggled her up for ponies and dog but she is a friend, I felt uncomfortable, going to have to get over that though if I am going to make a go of this!

To give an outline of what people will be/are paying form I am experienced and knowledgeable, always keeping myself abreast of new developments in stable management (although I have no official qualifications just tons of experience), I am an experienced and capable rider able to manage more challenging sharp forward horses, I have experience with youngsters, breaking and I also have allot of experience bringing on youngsters (I am currently bringing on a pony for a friend for free, this gives my dd the perk of having her 'own' pony and will give me a good recent reference).

So, what should my rates be, I don't want to over charge and I am happy to do work in exchange for riding in some cases as I have spent a good few years out of horses and need to build up my skill level again before I would be happy to charge people for riding, I will always find it hard to charge people for riding, I love it to much for me to not think it cheeky!
Opinions and advice very welcome!

I have done several jobs. I pollo pick for a lady ATM and she pays me £30pw . It takes on average 30 minutes a day. So £6 per 30 minutes or £12 per hr.
I did another job, poo picking and mucking out and got £8 per hour. Ive done 1 or 2 others and the £8 is about what I'd charge TBH. A local person who rents herself out for riding schooling and breaking youngsters charges £15ph. Don't undervalue yourself. I wouldn't accept minimum wage for anything.

I think as you mention it depends on the jobs you are asked to do, the distance you have to travel and whether the job is a 'regular' or a 'one-off'. If you need to drive an hour between jobs that will cost a lot more than a five minute drive both in petrol and in time spent not working. If you are asked to poo pick it's an unskilled job, whereas if you are asked to ride a lively youngster that is a pretty specialised skill.

I paid my groom 11 pounds per hour for a regular 3 hours, five days a week job, mucking out, lunging and hacking reliable cob, but that was also before the recession hit.

Thank you so much for your input.

I think I am often in danger of underselling myself partly due to, as I am sure you know, the fact the horse world can be pretty small and so many of my local owners are friends and there is a part of me that feels very cheeky taking money from friends, even when I am doing a job for them, I have to get over this! I think I also worry that if I set my rates to high, especially in the current economic climate that I just won't get enough work as people just won't have the cash to spend on a professional service when they can muddle along with help from friends and family, this is one of the reasons my target market is people who keep their horses at home or on small private yards as I know from my own experience that on a livery yard there is normally somebody about who can help you out free of charge when you go on holiday etc. and then there is also the issue that livery yards sell the extra services and don't like freelances coming in. Luckily where I live there are a good number of home keepers I even have a potential client who would love to move her horse onto my friends private yard (friend offers a couple of DIY livery spots) but she needs full livery which my friend can't offer but I can, I would imagine for that I would charge about £50 for a 7 day week (that is just labour no supplies) and maybe if she wanted exercise (don't know if she would yet) add about £25 for 5 half hour exercise rides/lunges a week (would be more if she wanted schooling). That seems like a huge amount of money to me but when I break it down to an hourly wage it is cheep as chips, I guess I need to not look at it as what I could afford to pay out, I need to detach myself from it somehow!

When it comes to fixing a price list as such I want to stay away from an hourly wage as it really depends on the horse how long they take to do, I have some I am doing right now that I can much out in just over 10 mins and others that are dirty beggars that can take 20 mins so I feel a fixed fee works best.
I need to look around locally at the cost of various types of livery available on local yard, we have a god range going from the local riding school (who I already do work for) who only take working livery and charge £20 a week inclusive of everything bar farrier and vet costs all the way up to competition yards who charge upwards of £200 a week!
I am not looking to make my fortune or even looking to make a wage that could support the whole family so I am willing to charge that little bit less, especially over the first couple of years as I really establish myself but at the same time, I can't work of nothing, we do need me to be making an income and covering costs (car costs, insurance and any wrap around childcare I may need to use)

Can people give me an idea of what they pay in livery costs, if they have ever used a groom and what they paid, what people would be willing to pay for groom services and if there are any packages, group discounts etc that would make it more appealing?
Thank you so much for your help!

£25 for 5 half hour rides is 5 per ride. Not bad, but you aren't factoring in catching, grooming and tacking up. Longer if there are rugs involved. Then doing the reverse at the end.
£50 for a 7 day week full livery, that's I hour a day at £7 ph. Ok, but you have to feed, change rugs, turn out, muck out, fill buckets and haynets, then catch in, groom, feed, put rugs on... All in 1 hour a day?
My advice? If you don't charge enough, they won't respect you. Don't go mad but also don't sell yourself short because you don't want to upset them. They are using you, make sure they appreciate you! Seriously I've never had a problem with private owners not wanting to pay.

Given the tax, national insurance and admin involved with running your own business - don't sell yourself short!

You are providing a "luxury" service for those who need it - you're not doing favours for friends!

As a rough guide (for my work) as a "professional pet-sitter" (i.e. I do it as a living - who also does horses.

I charge £10 visit for 1 visit to cats - which is feed, check water and change litter boxes, as well as give medication, along with associated cuddles. 2 visits in one day to the cats, I charge £16 for the 2 visits, so reduced rates for more visits.

Dog walking, I charge £10 per visit - they get a 45 minute walk. If the dog is a regular client, the price drops accordingly depending on how many walks in a week, they get - so if the client books all 5 days M-F, the walk drops to £7/hour. If the client wants a one-off 2 hour walk, the price drops to £16 for 2 hours (so £8 an hour), IYSWIM?

Horses, for holiday livery in their own home, I charge £30 for 1 visit. That includes mucking out, feeding, changing rugs, turning out and exercise/riding. if they need a second visit in the day, I charge £10 on top of the £30 to bring in and put to bed, so £40 for a "full day" (and 2 visits). The reason I do it like that, is because I have several clients who bring in their own horses at night, or chuck them out in the morning, but they just want everything prepared and don't want to do the donkey work.

If the client is outside a 5 mile radius of me, they pay mileage at 30p a mile for extra mileage on top of the 5 miles too.

I then tend to negotiate on top of that - so for example, very good friends of mine who I cat sit for, don't get charged the daily rate, we go out to dinner instead or I do it for a couple of bottles of wine, etc.

Don't undersell your services, seriously. The reason I say that, is that I have dealt with a number of "clients" who, when I started and I was on the cheaper side, they took the piss because they thought it was a "hobby". But remember - if you're going to do it as a good business, you still need to pay professional liabilty insurance, market it, pay for equipment/clothing and pay for mileage.

HTH. I'm in South wales, BTW. :)

I think £50 for a weeks labour re full livery seems anout ok, tbh it's easily less than an hour per day (excluding travelling of course).
I would not pay tigers rates of £40/day to look after horse at my house - my excellent and very skilled, experienced and qualified trainer charges £170/week for full schooling livery ie around £25/day and that includes him providing feeds and haylage and using his fields for grazing.

The lady I poo pick for is going abroad for 10 days next month. I will be going AM to feed, give them(2 highlands) a groom and a hug, and poo pick, and PM to feed and hay. They live out 24/7. She is quite happily and at her own insistence paying me £200. The work I do will take me about 1-1.5 hours a day.