Livery stress - AGAIN

[ManateeEquineOhara]

I think I need a thread here to hopefully get some opinions and to rant.

I had a similar yard rant in January when I was moving from my yard of 8 years as there were massive changes there so it wasn't the same.

New yard was okay, I never felt quite so relaxed there, and the hacking in winter all involved a busy road, a few general niggles, but it was okay, v. secure and nice yard owners.

However I am pretty poor so the option for the mare to go to agricultural college on working livery, and I pay no livery in term time came up so we went. BUT (copy pasted from riding log!) -They changed her saddle (fine) but are now on about changing her bit, with no real reason. They want to shoe her all around (she has got to 14 almost entirely barefoot and now only wears back shoes for remedial reasons). I am not very good at getting my point across without seeming defensive and mad, but I think I am going to have to just be assertive! The worst thing of all is the daft rules. To lead my own horse I have to wear a hat and gloves! I got 'told off' for leading her up a little concrete slope, and the dcs have to wear hats to go into the field. The stupidest rule was one I saw today - there was a list of 'strictly not to be worn on the yard' items - and this included brightly coloured socks!!!I really think we are going to have to leave. Dmare actually seems to quite like it, but I can't cope with this! I feel like to them I am a useless horse owner (despite having been a student at another agricultural college doing equine!).

She is there on a 6 week trial, Monday will be 2 weeks and every day sucks imo, Dmare is like one of my children, I have owned her 11 years and now I feel like I am being told how I should do things with her! I am not giving up entirely, I am trying to be open about how it could go, but I am also starting to think that things cannot change that much!

I have a yard to look at next Saturday which is in a good location and sounds nice, but is SO expensive, the yard we just left is £70 a month, the yard prior to that was £62 per month, this is £108 a month :-/ However I am moving after Christmas and doing so should save me a few hundred pounds a month, it is just the few intervening months :-/

BBG - that is exactly the case.

Lucy - OMG your poor friend, my mare is also a fluffy feathered thing, I would also sob if her feathers would be cut off. I am pretty pissed off about the feet trimming, as is the farrier. They kind of explained it as they pay half towards shoeing, but they just got their farrier to trim the fronts instead...or it was something like that, I was distracted right then by the whole kicking thing!
And I think you are right about the head tossing - she has simply never done that before so something must be getting done differently!

Looking at a yard tomorrow - can't wait. I was wanting to stay for a bit longer to give it a chance, but with her being kicked I just want her back asap. If that doesn't work I will go back to my old yard here, even if I will have to move again when I move house. I want to give her huggles and look after her.

I think that's a good plan. I've had some dealings with equine colleges in the past and I think it's quite telling the number of students who won't keep their horses at the colleges they attend, and certainly not let them be used. I think you've got a pretty good picture of how things would go if you leave your mare there, so you're right to hook her out asap.
I hope you can post happy updates soon.

Thanks Lucy :)

Busily brooding on this all night, and I remembered something else that really annoyed me - the mare was wearing someone else's rug. When I pointed it out to staff (it looked similar to hers but had the other horse's name on it), they just said "Yeah, that is fine". Well, it isn't really fine is it?! That belongs to someone else who has let you have it there for there own horse, not any horse that it is convenient to put it on!!! rant, rant, rant.

I am in total agreement with so many, especially head tossing! Dmare is ridden in a hanging cheek with a very light contact, if you pull or tighten that contact, up goes her head! You can ride her on the buckle end she's so good off the leg but woe betide you try a tight contact!

That said, she is hogged and no feathers but that is my choice and suits her!

Isn't the rule that you should ride in as little tack as you can, the best one? So try to avoid flashes or martingales unless absolutely necessary?

So how are the escape plans going ?

I'd be livid about the farrier.
I'd be livid about the circumstances of the kick, and that I hadn't been told.
I'd be livid about the saddle.
I'd be worried about the head tossing.
And I'd be very unhappy re. the rugs - our mare isn't a rug trasher and she's quite deep. We spend a lot on rugs to get something that fits her well, but with a bit of confidence that they should last her a good few years. If one got put on something else and trashed I would be very unamused. And that's before you get onto infection risk...

If it were me then unless finances were extremely pressing I think I'd be looking to get her out ASAP. There are too many instances where they're disregarding your care plan.

I have NO money, I am so stressed, I need her out asap. I am not moving to the area where she is until after Christmas and can't afford to get there twice a day, so was looking for temporary grass livery - can't find any. Am considering hacking the 20 or so miles and negotiating the M5 junction and a River Exe bridge to get her back without boxing costs (she is now sound following the kick, but I suppose I should be realistic, it would be one long hack, and not a nice route - I am just this minute trying to see if there are in fact any reasonable routes to do this with the help of Google Earth).

I have also been speaking to a women I met on H&H forum - her horse was there and was hogged without her consent. Plus she had numerous other issues with the place, and it seems they also changed her saddle (because THEY know best , by the sounds of it, they used on her horse, the very same saddle Dmare is being ridden in!!! )

My plan of the moment is actually search out a yard that is halfway - so I don't have to box her all the way back (could hack out to escape!) and it would be nearer to home. But that is also not ideal in numerous ways. (I would then need to move her nearer to my new home, it wouldn't be THAT close to home now, very disruptive for her).

As a 'walking route' and I would need to assume human walking speed over that distance - Google is predicting it would take over 5 hours, argh!

Do you not know anyone who would box her over for you as a favour? Or would be happy for you to pay bit by bit per week? (sorry, i know theres a word for that but gone compleatley brain dead! Blonde moment )
Do you know anyone with a yard or a field halfway? Do half one day, half the next? I used to do this quite alot to get to shows!

Installments!! Thats the word!!

Ah yes - instalments. Probably not actually!

I did think about a stop off on the route actually, and it would still be far cheaper than boxing. I am actually quite excited about the idea of hacking it, it is always nice to have the autonomy of being able to hack long distances. I think I will do a little search of the half way area today - in fact, my friend is the local police officer in that area - I shall ask her :) My main issue with hacking is getting back to the car after, and where the kids will be. Both can be worked around though :)

I had a horrible dream last night that I told the college we were leaving and they said that they would 'take her to the knackers yard for me' . Bloody hideous dream, I am quite disturbed. And then as I rode her out of there making our getaway she turned into a loon, bolted and threw me, and I had no control 'cos there was a god-damn snaffle in her mouth!!!

After that dream I have contacted the YO at the yard we were at, we are going back, she is being very nice and doing a discounted rate for boxing her for me too. (Sod autonomy actually, boxing will be so much easier). I told the yard manager at the college and she was fine, I didn't go into my reasons, I just said I really miss her (also true, I miss her so very much). Tuesday is 'rescuing Dmare from horse boarding school day'. Can't wait, I feel so much happier now :)

:)
Good luck with the move! At least your getting there!

Sorry that wasn't really the most tactful way I could have written all of that, was it?

Really glad you've got a Plan, though, and your previous/future YO is being supportive. Fingers crossed nothing untoward happens over the weekend and things go smoothly on Tuesday :)

oh thank goodness

was starting to sound truly nightmarish, am so glad you are out of there

no such thing as free anything is there? Good luck with move!

Yes - very relieved!

Tangle - if that was not tactful I was totally oblivious!

manatee I'm so glad to hear it's all working itself off.

Hogged without permission?

Thanks AlpinePony - yeah, the poor women and her horse! Apparently she was only there for a short while as a favour for the yard manager at a busy time, and the poor horse got hogged!

The sense of relief about leaving I have is just massive. I do feel it is a shame it didn't work out when potentially it could have been good, but they really need to realise that although they may be 'experts' in the sense they are well trained, the owners know what is best for their individual horses and that should be respected!

Fingers crossed everything goes smoothly for you tomorrow :)

Thanks Tangle - she is back and happy, but I have just had a horrid phone call and now I feel awful. They worm counted her and although they did not tell me the number they said it was incredibly high for strongyle larvae- and unusual as there were strongyle larvae present in a fresh sample (usually takes a few days to hatch?). Plus incredibly unusual in that she is obviously well in herself.

She was last wormed in August with Equest, and then worm counted in August and it came back low! However in looking up a load of stuff online there are a few 'disclaimers' about how a low count is only a low count for that sample, doesn't mean the horse doesn't have worms etc. OMG I feel like the worst horse owner in the world. If anything happened to her I wouldn't want to live. Why the fuck did I faff about with bloody hippy worm counts rather than just going with the drugs :(

So the whole point of the call was also to warm me that with a high count I should get the advice of my vet before worming as it could produce negative side effects :(. Obviously I have also been googling like crazy - seems Panacur 5 day is probably going to be the gentlest and most effective, so have already ordered some, in case the vet doesn't stock it any more (they were really pushing the 12 week programme). They may also provide and anti-inflammatory to give beforehand, :( She is out in a lovely grassy field atm, but I will be up there bright and early to stick her in a stable. (Am I even more of a lowlife for also caring that all the other liveries are going to gossip like crazy about this?). :( :( :( :( :( :(

Don't stress too much, Manatee, a sudden high count can mean that encysted strongyles are emerging. They can be dormant for up to two years so you can get a high count after loads of low ones, and you need two years of negative counts to be sure they haven't got them, but worming is more effective when they emerge.

The Panacur guard will get rid of them, and because you worm count you know what's going on instead of being unaware that this is happening, so you are, in fact, an excellent horse owner. If anyone gossips who doesn't worm count then they just don't know what's going on with their own horses.

Enjoy having her back. Congratulations on a successful escape

Glad you've got her back :)

I'd imagine you "faffed about with bloody hippy worm counts" because you're a responsible horse owner who's trying to prevent worm resistance!

Just a stray thought that crossed my mind...

I wonder if its worth getting another worm count done and/or calling up someone like Westgate Labs and asking their opinion. My only thought is that mixing up samples isn't terribly hard to do and if your horse has consistently tested as very low for strongyles it seems out of character for her to suddenly have a very high burden. My understanding (gleaned from not too much specialist knowledge, I'll freely admit, although quite a lot of generalised interest) is that for the horse to be showing larvae they need to have quite a high burden of adult worms, as the larvae hatch in the manure (do a bit of developing and are then re-ingested by the horse where they find a cosy home and mature into adults). I also came across a few suggestions that said individual horses seem to be pre-disposed to be either susceptible or resistant to different worms - again, if every sign has been that she doesn't have a high strongyle border except this one worm count done by the other yard, it would just be making me ask questions...

If there IS a problem then definitely agree that you're much much better off knowing about it so you can deal with it. I've just got a little niggle that says I'd like to be doubly sure that there is actually an issue with my horse before going off on a hard-core worming exercise. From my experience yard managers can be strange people - we left one yard, tried incredibly hard to stay very diplomatic about why we were leaving to anyone and everyone, made a point of saying nothing derogatory about the yard or the manager. But they still ignored us for over a year, even at a social event we were invited to by a mutual friend where neither of us knew very many other people .

Also completely agree that you should ignore the gossips. You're demonstrating good horse management and if they can't appreciate that its their loss. Plus you don't plan to stay there that long .

Once again, so glad you've got her back and fingers crossed you can get the worming issue sorted :)

Thanks both :)

I don't think this sample got mixed as they only tested a few horses - I think the sample in August was possibly incorrect (and btw, I meant she had the Equest in april as a kind of routine worming, not in August when she had a low count - I didn't worm her then because the count was low).

People at the yard have been very nice actually, those I have seen so far. The YO was very nice, told me not to panic etc. One livery had a similar issue with her horse having tapeworm following a worm count which like me, she did in place of worming (apparently counts don't pick up tapeworm at all).

When I told a women whose horse has been sharing a field with Dmare all year, she did a shocked expression so I thought she would be judgey, and then told me her horse's worming is not up to date! (Poss the source?!).

The call to the vet's was not nice, I spoke to one particular vet who I have horrible memories of him putting a metal rod in Dmare's wound to determine the size of the abscess cavity, and he always makes me scared! (After that conversation I went into the office at work and was told to compile a quiz in 3 minutes for the team! I was totally stressed and failed miserably - I thought up ONE question! ). Anyway - vet prescribed low dose steroids to go alongside the wormer in case the encysted larvae dying causes intestinal inflammation :(

At least you have a Plan and are managing the situation and your vet's are up to speed on the situation.

Sounds like the field sharer was more shocked at the realisation her horse might have a similar problem than that you had the audacity to bring a contaminated horse onto the yard (). She's also quite possibly mortified that she may have caused the problem.

Worm counts are the standard form of control at our yard - IIRC they get wormed a couple of times a year to cover the odd ones that the counts don't detect, but otherwise they're only wormed if there's a problem. Its like anything else to do with horses (or kids) - there's more than one way of going about the problem and they all come with pros and cons. You just do the best you can and keep your fingers crossed .

Does the vet think that the 5-day wormer plan + steroids should sort it all out? Is there anything they check afterwards to make sure its worked?

Fingers crossed the steroids are purely preventative and DMare is all clear soon :)

The vet is so bloody negative and judgey but I happen to know that is just this particular vet. Anyway, I bought the steroids (£57 ). She has started on the wormer and I am giving the steroids for now. They are in pill form, I have to give her 10 pills a day! I was bitten this morning, (accidentally) as I shoved said pills to the back of her throat! I don't think we'll do the full dose of steroids for long though, Dmare is absolutely fine and the vet prescribed them for 15 days!

All at yard still perfectly nice, which is really appreciated. They have all been really friendly since I came back which makes me all the more glad that I did :)

Is it a problem if she chews the pills? I had a friend who used to either dig a hole in a lump of carrot and use as an edible pill holder, or even squidge them into a bit of cheese to disguise the taste. Might save your fingers if you can come up with something she'll gobble up happily

Glad to hear DMare is doing OK and things are good at the yard :)