Enlightened Riding - anyone heard of this 'new method?

[FannyPriceless]

Opinions please. I had my first lesson at new stables. When I arrived they told me they only teach a 'completely new method' called Enlighted Riding.

The position involves no lower leg contact at all, with knees turned inwards on to the horse. To achieve this they got me to take each leg off the horse, rotate it forward, turn my knee into the horse, and turn my heels out and away. This had the effect of making me sit on the front of my pelvis, gripping with my knees and perched like a bird.

This is apparently 'correct' as they said I had the leg position really well, and when I did sit down and ride through my seat they told me to stop driving with my seat.

The explanation for the method is that traditional riding involves constantly nagging the horse with your legs which is 'cruel'.

Would you go back there? I don't want to ride like this, but I would mainly use the stable for hacking so it's not a big deal I suppose. But I want somewhere for DD to learn, and in many ways this is ideal. They welcome young children on the yard (DD is 2.5), they are very friendly and inclusive, they have a perfect little Shetland for her, and they are a pony club centre. But I don't really want her to learn to ride this method!

Has anyone heard of it / have any views? The 'guru' is named Anne Parker but when I tired to view her website it apparently doesn't exist yet.

Would you go back to these stables?

no! sounds a bit funny to me. Traditional riding does not mean nagging your horse. Not sure how they can pass children on pony club badges with this supposed new method.

I have found this link. Sounds remarkably waffly to me.

Weird. How can you achieve any depth of seat, is your whole weight in your knees all the time? What happens if the horse bucks? It sounds quite unstable. Would not in a million years want to try this on our pony, when you need to sit deep and quite tall at all times. Am not a massive BHS fan but I am persuaded by their insistence on dropping your weight into your heels and NOT gripping with knees. As a child though I distinctly remember being told to keep knees much closer than BHS way.

My leg is what reassures my horse (and the pony), it's not nagging. It's how I transmit messages such as 'sheep don't kill horses' or 'that road sign isn't going to pounce on you'.

Having said that, I might get the book now I've looked at the site!

Seriously mitch? You want to get the book? Can I ask why?

My daughter is really keen on dressage, there might be something interesting or useful in this method - I like finding out about different riding styles.

Or this book looks similar. Can't imagine adopting the approach wholesale but something about it has captured my interest (having initially thought 'what a load of shit')!

I had a look at that book - did you notice that all of the reviews are written by the same person and sound suspiciously like the author? But yes, I can see some appeal in it perhaps.

I guess it didn't help that the person taking my lesson had only been working there two weeks so was totally new to it herself. She kept saying she didn't really understand it properly herself, but was nevertheless convinced wholeheartedly. Right.

The pony club thing - when I asked if I could bring DD along to the pony club session to watch the other children riding, she said 'oh we don't actually do riding at pony club, we do horse care and classroom teaching.' I didn't ask any further, but maybe that's the only way they could get the pc accreditation.

I'm not really selling the place, am I?

Fanny, most PC centres do what you describe, rather than riding. What you're describing sounds a bit like the old leg position we were taught back in the mists of time. 'Grip with your knees' HAS to be shrieked at you by an old harpie standing on the mounting block

I don't think its 'right' that you came forward on to your pubic bone. The only way this 'method' begins to make sense is if you were to be sat well (and very still) with buttocks of immobile steel and 'steering' through your thighs. As in essentially giving a path/channel there. I just can't believe that the goal was to be balanced on your pubis.

As olderyetwider says, knees in was lore of old, but combined with a hunting/Welsh farmer seat.

Not sure I like the sound of it tbh. I like to consider all sorts of approaches, and often use bits and pieces from parelli, or monty Roberts, but I do think you at least need to have a basic grip of riding and horse behaviour before you can start experimenting with other stuff. Complete novices could go to this school and learn this stuff and then go off and try it on horses elsewhere that may not have a clue What's going on. Don't forget, the average riding school or novice level pony works on a purely kick to go, pull to steer basis! Dshetland is lovely and is quite capable of more advanced stuff, but is still very much immune to anything other than feet and hands. I'd stick to a normal school if it was me.

I prefer the book I bought the other day in a charity shop (I love old horsey books and it was only 50p so I couldn't resist). It's called 'Riding for Everybody' and was written in 1962 with loads of useful advice for choosing a riding establishment. For example, if on your first visit the proprietor "greets you collarless and showing his braces, then make a quick exit". I love the captions on the photos. "A ride along a busy road" Er no, it's a Morris Minor and two bicycles. (They didn't know how lucky they were)
And yes, there are lots of people gripping with their knees!

When I still had a horse I did EE (Enlightened Equitation) with him, I still have the special saddle that puts your leg in the right position, if anyone wants it....

Doesn't sound the same as Enlightened Riding, EE was all about opening out your pelvis and putting your legs a bit further back than was normal, the theory was that it put less pressure on the horse, gave you a better, lighter seat and encouraged you to move with the horse's natural gait. Nothing about your knees....

I have to say it took a bit of getting used to but my riding did improve once I'd got to grips with it. Dressage used to be my thing, and I found the principles of EE were very much about riding lightly, with the slightest of nudges for guidance. My boy was a fat hairy clydie cross and he responded really beautifully to it.

Sounds barmy to me, and not like you would ever be taught to ride with a secure and independant seat. I worked for a member of the Italian dressage team for a while and this sounds the opposite of what she taught me - gripping with the knees would have resulted in me being on the next flight home...

Hi, I am Heather Moffett, owner of 'Enlightened Equitation' a registered UK and European trademark, and I would like to make it very clear that Anne Parker and 'Enlightened Riding' are absolutely nothing to do with my organisation. Ms Parker's methods are the very antithesis of my own teaching, and as I have been an invited lecturer and trainer worldwide, and am currently also British Horse Society County chairman for Devon, I would like to strongly reiterate that she is not, and never has been, associated with Enlightened Equitation.

OPs place sounds barking mad and typically "Californian" in being away from the mainstream.

We all ride and DD has lessons from the top showing producers in the country. We'd never allow her to be taught in the way that OP is being taught. She sits deep and whilst she keeps a close contact she is relaxed and supple. When she has jumping lessons from an I at Pony Club she even gets taught to relax her knees away from the saddle!

Keeping your leg on is not nagging - it's called riding!

A classical seat in no way involves nagging with your leg! Your lower leg should be making contact with the horse at all times but that's the inside of your calf, not your heel. A well schooled horse should respond to the lightest aids from the leg and you should not need to nag. If you're not supposed to ride with the seat how would anyone ever half-halt?

I wouldn't be going back, nor would I want DD to learn following this method.

This all sounds so alien to me I was taught old school, grip with the knees in my lessons I had to ride with no stirrups and a oiled rag under each knee. I'm a lot more relaxed in the leg now but some how feel more at ease with my knees on it has aloud me to stay on In many hair raising situations they like to throw at us x

Just to say, I think that really is Heather Moffett of Enlightened Equitation above. The way she and her teachers teach is very different to this "enlightened riding". Enlightened Equitation is well worth looking into in my opinion, and is based on sound classical principles.
What is described above sounds more like Ride With Your Mind (Mary Wanless), which is a bit like Marmite. I agree with you, I wouldn't want my child to learn to ride like that. I'm also a bit wary of anyone who runs another method down to that extent, as a way of promoting their own business.

Knees on is very old fashioned, it was how I was taught as well. I find myself much more balanced these days after having lessons with an Enlightened Equitation instructor. Your legs should be draped over your horse a bit like "a wet flannel". No gripping with knees or holding things against the saddle with them.

Lucyinthepie, spot on! It sounded like Ride With Your Mind to me too, but was unsure about pointing it out as I hadn't seen what OP describes. Never had a RWYM lesson but have heard very poor reports about them.

At the end of the day for me the only thing that can help improve your position (if you are interested in this in the first place!) is riding without stirrups!

Having an Enlightened Equitation saddle helps with position as well. I absolutely love mine, and it really helps to sit me in the right place. This is why some people don't get on with them, they aren't used to that feeling.

Oh my god!!! I cannot believe Heather Moffett is actually on MN enlighteneduk, seriously!!

I bought your book years ago when I got my first horse and I couldn't believe how much sense it made. Really started to make me understand what all those old fashioned riding instructors had always failed to do. I can't believe I learned so much from 1 book.

I cannot stress enough that everyone who owns or rides a horse should buy the book "Enlightened Equitation" (definitely NOT the style the OP was talking about), and buy the saddle too. Such small things have made such a huge difference!

Sorry for the hijack!

Never ridden with one of those saddles, but always use my Heather Moffat seat saver.

ahhhh Heather Moffett gets everywhere! she just loves to slag off other peoples methods. To the original poster, enlightened riding/Anne Parker uses methods more like Mary Wanless than EE and what you describe that the instructor had you doing is wrong, you sit on your seatbones and you do not grip with your knees at all, you put your weight into knees and grip with your thighs, and you close your lower leg onto the horses side to bend the horse around your leg rather than using your heels to keep kicking.