New teacher, different way of riding?

[wisecamel]

Hello tack room people. I've not been on this board before but have started riding again after about three years off. Anyway, I thought I was OK, not great but could pop over a little fence and was safe out on a hack and stuff. I've started riding at a different school and although the teacher's lovely, I'm sure the aids are different. For example, to raise your inside hand (quite high!) to turn, and keep your knees close against the saddle and your legs off. She says we have a lot to work on! Just wondered if this was normal and there were lots of different ways, or if this is a bit eccentric...any thoughts?

I had a 30 year break in my riding, and it's totally different now (we were taught the old cavalry seat back then) It took me ages to learn to ride with a relaxed leg. I'm not sure things will have changed that much in 3 years!

There are different styles definitely-for example I wouldn't raise my inside hand to turn to the inside but open it out! DD has just moved from being taught by a "showing" type instructor to a more all-round type, she also has a young pony so needs to keep her hands lower....

The knees close to saddle sounds like she might be a Ride With Your Mind instructor. I must admit, I didn't get on with that at all.

Ah, Lucyinthepie yes she did mention Ride with your Mind but it went over my head at the time...I'll have to find out more about it.

I've had another lesson since first posting and managed a trot without stirrups far smoother than I used to, even though we have to keep stopping for her to actually put my leg in the right place. So it feels weird now being pulled about, but I'll give it a go and we'll see!

I did 3 RWYM lessons and gave up, I could hardly walk and my horse was totally confused. We went from being able to ride with no reins to meandering all over the place. I think you just find the style that sits well with you and stay with an instructor who teaches that. My trainer is very classical and she is not a fan of the position that RWYM teach, but a good friend of mine loves it.

I would not go to an instructor who is so fussy about the kind of details that do not matter, and who says such patronising comments as 'there is a lot to work on'.

I might be being thick here, but where would your knees be if not close to the saddle?

Labradorlover, the distinction as far as I can tell, (and I'm really happy to be corrected as am a novice :) ) is that I am used to thinking 'weight down into heels and 'hug' the pony with your calves' I am now thinking thighs down, like kneeling and legs away, unless giving an aid. So, more with control with pelvis and upper thighs and less with calves and heels.

Am in agony with muscles today! But great to get back into riding

Hopeless explanation, sorry. But have looked at the Ride with your mind Essentials book on Amazon and that is what I am being taught. We'll see what happens!

I ride like you wisecamel
Me and my nag are too old to change!
But I haven't had a lesson for about 10 years!

There are two approaches to flatwork riding:

The more traditional one is the open hip, relaxed knew, calves on, heels down.

A more recent version encourages riders to turn the whole leg a bit inwards, the knee is against the saddle and the lower leg is off the horse.

Personally I was always trained in the first type and as I have enough trouble getting that one right, have no desire to learn the other one! I did once buy a horse that was used to the second type of riding and I just did not get on with him at all!

What you're describing as 'ride with your mind' sound a lot like the old cavalry seat that we were taught 30 years ago. I can't possibly re-learn something it's take me ages to unlearn! Funny how things come round again

So...in this 'ride with your mind' you ride with your toes sticking out?!

No, if anything your toes will tend to turn in (try it sitting in a chair, the more you turn your knee in to make more contact with your imaginary saddle, and to release the calves, the more your toes turn in).

Think like a sort of squatting duck.
I don't think this is a more recent style or riding, it's just a different style. I have a classical trainer now and my stirrups are much longer than they were with RWTM, my legs hang much more "straight down". I have to allow my legs to drape around my horse (like a wet flannel she says!), with my knees relaxed. Leg aids come from sort of a feel with the back of my calf.
In my RWYM lessons I was first told that my position was insecure and that the first sign of a spook I'd be on the floor. A nice theory but totally inaccurate based on many years of sitting spooks. Then my stirrups went up, my knees were pressed in, and my lower leg was pulled back. I was then told that I shouldn't rely too much on the reins for steering (I'm a natural horsemanship person, I could ride my horse without reins so certainly didn't rely on them) and was instructed that when turning I should visualise "jets coming out of my outside knee and through his opposite shoulder. It was all quite entertaining, confused the hell out of me and the horse, we were all over the place, and when I got off my legs were like jelly. So I'd say that RWYM is definitely for some, but not all riders.

As an example here are two very excellent dressage riders demonstrating the two positions:

First three photos are clearly the 'knees on, lower leg off' position: blog.moody-dressage.co.uk/category/moody-dressage-gallery/

And the 'open knee, lower leg on the horse' position: annabrowndressageponies.co.uk/ponies.html

Neither of those look very RWYM to me. Here's Mary Wanless herself.
www.mary-wanless.com/

And Heather Moffat, more of a classical seat www.enlightenedequitation.com/heather.htm
I'm taught that you should look as if, should the horse just vanish from under you, you would land on your feet.

Wow, that Mary Wanless site sounds so patronising. I fully subscribe to the 'ride in the way that works for you' method. Maybe I will set up a website for victims of daft methods who are disturbed from having lessons that focus on position rather than getting on with riding!

I don't really know anything about the RWYM technique to be honest. I've come across these two positions as the 'classical German one' (the knee off, lower leg on) and the 'modern alternative' (knee on, leg off) in dressage.

I think it depends on what the rider wants to get out of lessons. I watched two friends of mine having a lesson with a BHS instructor at a well regarded school recently and they were basically being taught to steer with their reins, kick to go (riding school horses dead to the leg) and pull to stop. That will get them by for hacking out and other leisure riding. If they wanted to progress to the point where they are working a horse in balance and carrying out some more advance work then a) they'd have to unlearn a lot of what was being taught and b) at some point they'd have to focus on their position because at some point the rider has to use themselves properly to help their horse.
My trainer is a classical rider who uses the Alexander tecnique. She can spend 20 minutes or so gently adjusting my position, how I hold my hands etc, and completely transform how my horse is moving.
Horses for courses as they say.

Just a thought, can you do RWYM position for jumping? And also, if I relearn this way and then want to buy a pony, will I have to specify the type of training it's had or would it just adjust?

I feel some lessons may be booked in the near future.....Have always prefered riding with long stirrups.

You can jump if you're RWYM trained, and your horse won't need any special training, it will soon pick up on any slight variances in your aids. Anyone liking long stirrups probably best avoid RWYM.