Stuck between PGCE options and would really appreciate insight from teachers

[elleone]

Hello, sorry if this is the wrong place to post. I’ve asked everyone I possibly can and people are either reluctant to give me direct advice because they worry about swaying me or they don’t know.

I have a place for both a primary PGCE and a secondary PGCE, and I have no idea which to go with. They both have their pros and they both have their cons.

Ideally I’d get some more experience in a school to help me decide, but none is available between now and the end of February when I have to decide.

What kind of person would make a good or a bad primary school teacher vs a good or a bad secondary English teacher? What are the seemingly small but significant pros and cons of each? Do you have any tips for choosing (especially tips which aren’t about the different age or subject ranges as I’d be happy with both for different reasons)?

Please give as much detail as you can! This is kind of my last hope for receiving any advice and I’d enormously appreciate it. I just keep swinging back and forth between the two options over and over again and getting increasingly panicked about making the wrong choice.

thank you!

I have taught mostly primary but did work in a secondary school for a couple of years a while ago now. What is your degree in? If you have maths, English, languages or science, you would be snapped up. If you love your subject, secondary enables you to teach your subject all day long. The older kids are more independent, you don't need to deliver them to their parents at the end of the day, go down to the dinner hall with them to get their dinner, help them put their coat on or tie their shoe laces etc. The flip side is that you might face a 6ft 2 angry, aggressive student at some points in your career or some bitchy girls too and / or they can be intimidating but again depends on the school and area. (That is not to say to say that this doesn't also happen with 9, 10, 11 year olds,l in primary it does!)

The secondary students can mark their own work in many subjects, and you can have "mature" conversations with some of them. Having worked in both, the workload is generally less in secondary, unless you teach secondary English or a few other subjects which require heavy marking. Teaching PE, Music, technology in a secondary school is quite light in terms of marking and if you love your subject, you get to teach it all day but I am sure there is also other workload demands.

If you would prefer to teach a variety of subjects from Maths to Art, Primary enables you to do this! The kids are needier, they want your attention, you really have to look after them as well as teach them and keep them safe etc as they are young. Ofcourse you have to keep the older kids safe too, but a 5 year old running around or leaving the building is more of a worry than if they are 15.

If you find it rewarding to give a sticker to a young child, see their smile, and give them lots of attention, primary might be for you but it is exhausting and their behaviour can be very poor, not as scary as a teenager perhaps, but they can destroy your lessons or prevent you from teaching. It's really hard work, with lots of marking of all the subjects you have taught in the day and you are expected to have good subject knowledge in every subject, whereas in secondary you teach the subject you know very well all day.

All of this though, is dependent on the school, how good or bad the Headteacher is, how deprived the area is, all sorts of things regardless of whether it's primary or secondary. The examples I have given aren't 100 per cent, as ofcourse an SEN 15 year old might need more looking after than a responsible 10 year old, but Inhabe just given examples on general.

Teaching is a very tough job primary or secondary. Your decision depends on whether you love your subject, the subject you studied, whether you'd prefer the kids to be more independent or whether you like the nurturing side of it. From my experience of primary, it's extremely tiring and the expectations have become impossible over recent years. I am sure secondary is the same.

A couple of practical points from me (I’m not a teacher, but various family members and friends are).

The quality of leadership in schools Is variable and makes a big difference. If you work in a primary school, there are likely to be far more local options if the one you start off of doesn’t suit you for whatever reason.

It obviously depends on where you live, but in rural areas you may have to travel much further to work in a secondary school and, if you don’t like the nearest school, you might end up with a long commute.

On the other hand, there are far more opportunities for promotion in secondary schools. And in some parts of the country it can be much harder to find a job as a primary teacher, whereas English teachers will be in demand more of less everywhere.

I'm a secondary teacher and the idea of teaching primary is horrifying to me!

Primary teachers have to do everything. Teach everything, put on assemblies and shows, run Christmas fair stalls, decorate the classroom, dress up for world book day, deal with parents who are at the school every day, first aid, endless lost property, read stories, wipe noses, if your class is on a residential, so are you and you're organising it.

Me? I rock up and teach maths. I have to do some other stuff, but it's mainly maths.

I would not even consider teaching without experiencing it beforehand. It’s unlikely to be what you’re expecting. A minimum of a week’s observation used to be an essential requirement of the course! It’s quite telling that they no longer insist on that. Probably because they know most people would think twice if they actually knew how awful things were!

For me, the big difference is relationships. I'm a good primary teacher because I develop great relationships with the children and can motivate them. I worked briefly at secondary and this didn't work there. You spend far less time with the students and you don't know them inside out. I teach my pupils for five hours every day, so I know their strengths and areas for development inside out. Secondary didn't suit me.

I’ve had observational experience in both, and still can’t decide between them. Also I come from a teaching family (Mum works in primary and Dad teaches secondary), so I’ve seen some of the behind the scenes workload too.

My degree is in English (although secondary English is no longer a shortage subject). My main trouble deciding comes from the fact that they’re such different jobs and I could see myself doing either.

I think I’d be a good secondary English teacher, especially with the exam pressure and subject knowledge. But there’s a risk of getting burned out and the subject I love turning into the subject I hate. If I knew I could move out of it into Primary if I wanted to, I’d probably pick that, but I’ve been doing research and it’s pretty unclear how possible that transition would be.

Primary would be a more broadly enjoyable job for me, I think, in the long-term and would expand my skills at a faster rate, but there’s also the risk of missing teaching my subject, which was what drew me to teaching in the first place. I think I could grow to love primary in the long-run the most, but English is such a core part of my skills and identity that I’m struggling to give it up. I do love essay-based teaching, and you don’t get much of that in primary.

If I’m being totally honest, I think primary would be a better job for me, but secondary would allow me to pivot around age groups and give me more subject credibility which it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to get in primary.

If I really could choose my job, I think I’d be best in higher education, but humanities and higher education in general is so bad right now that I’d be stupid to chase after it. So that leaves me caught between primary and secondary. And as I said, primary teaching is difficult to justify alongside any kind of further education, but it would probably align with my values more.

You haven't actually mentioned the kids. Are you good with little children?

I think I’m pretty good with both older and younger kids, to be honest. I don’t mind angry teens or young kids who need me to coach them through every. Maybe I’m a tiny bit better with older kids but I could work happily with either.

I’m secondary and wouldn’t have it any other way. The workload is high enough without having to deal with very young children. I have friends who teach primary and their tales of getting into trouble for having the wrong backing paper on display blow my mind. And you only have to spend 5 minutes on the primary education board here to get an insight into how absolutely batshit some parents are.

I think you can have excellent relationships with secondary age pupils. They need all the nurturing of a younger child, but in a very different way. Yes, some can be real pains, but the majority of teenagers are generally quite wonderful. As mentioned upthread though SLT make all the difference. I am very lucky in that respect.

I do wonder if you have a realistic view of what teaching your specialism might look like in a school setting. I’d look more closely at higher education. English might be a core subject but it’s not the same as teaching to a group of people who actually want to be there…

I have quite limited experience and of course am not a teacher, so I may not have a realistic idea about what teaching a subject specialism entails. I don’t necessarily need students to enjoy the subject, but I do worry about teaching the same set of quotes over and over and not seeing any results. I would like a job which enables some element of independent thinking or creativity, and I honestly see that more in a primary school than in a secondary school (or even sometimes an a-level setting).

The thing I like about secondary is that you generally get a range in your working week (sometimes even day) from Y7 - Y11 (and I also teach A Level). The number of primary teachers who get stung wanting to teach Y5 and ending up in Y2 (or vice-versa) with no way out for a whole year. That would bother me. Might not bother you.

I believe secondary is also more accommodating of career progression. I'm only in my 4th year and already have a fairly large TLR (as HOD) and am looking to jump to UPS next year. Primary colleagues often seem to feel that they get stuck under a glass ceiling.

I can't stand small children so perhaps not the best person to respond.

I was a career changer to teaching after I had my kids, and like you struggles to make the decision between primary and secondary.
I went for secondary and am so glad I did :
Much less marking most of the year ( 60 plus books a night, every night in many primaries)
Far less contact with parents, you don’t get the fuss over lost jumpers and friendships to anything like the degree in secondary and the year teams and reception deal with most of it.
Easier progression up the payscales, ( it changes all the times re targets/ evidence) but apart from some massive evidence collection I moved easily through MPS and UPS, I know several primary teachers ( and you can read it on here and elsewhere) who are repeatedly prevented from moving even up the MPS never mind to UPS because of lack of funding.
In general, due to the much smaller size of primaries, it is easier for a bullying head/ deputy to have a very adverse effect on you. Secondary schools will have HR departments etc, and it can be less easy for one unpleasant person to go off piste and trash your career.
If you don’t get on with some kids in your class it must be hell in primary, all day every day. The odd one that winds me up, well I only see them for 4 or 5 hours every two weeks.

And finally, most importantly for me, I get to do my subject all day every day. I can enthuse kids about science, exude biology love all the time. I don’t have to pretend to love teaching French, and PE, and drama, and geography, and history ( and English!) and everything else.

I originally trained in Primary, hated it and then did an English PGCE and have been in secondary for a decade.

I really struggled with the breadth of subject knowledge needed for primary - I love English but found teaching Maths, Science, Art & PE really difficult, even in KS2! I found the workload much more and I had one particularly challenging placement class which I struggled to be with all day every day.

I love secondary as I only need to focus on one subject - there is still lots to cover within that subject as we teach 2 GCSEs (and A Level too) but I can re-use resources/lesson ideas each year and between year groups. You are certainly not "teaching the same set of quotes over and over". I might only have 1 challenging student in each class and I don't always see them every day! Lots of my colleagues have moved from secondary to further education / university lecturing.

Dissimilarly to PP, I have found it quite difficult to progress working in a big school, friends of mine in small primary schools have progressed and taken on responsibility much quicker.

key stage 1 teacher here.

Teenagers are terrifying and I’d hate the accountability of ensuring my students got top grades at GCSE and ALevel. That, to me, is huge pressure.