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Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

Hope to apply for HOD roles

48 replies

ForOliveShaker · 07/10/2024 23:09

I’m currently a 4 th year English teacher. I have a subject specific whole school tlr, I am a mentor, I have marked for an exam board, I have run several lunchtime clubs in relation to my subject, I have lead the a level curriculum by designing all the sequencing documents and planning all the lessons(unpaid), I have supported the hod with various tasks delegated in relation to the department (essentially 2ic but not recognised for that), I’m part of the lit drive mentoring programme whereby I have a mentor and they support me in relation to developing towards a hod role and I’ve b enrolled in an NPQ which hasn’t yet started, I’ve also been and shadowed a local grammar school to develop my ability to stretch and challenge KS5 students, asked the HOD questions in relation to their role and what they do and how they have created their departmental expectations. We also had ofsted our visit January which I was interviewed for.

I’ve done about as much as I can in relation to developing myself and doing as many things as I can to gain hands on experience to advance in my career.

I would like to apply for HOD roles. Am I ready? Should I wait longer? I’d love to work in a grammar school but sadly there are no jobs available! Thoughts?

OP posts:
Newrumpus · 07/10/2024 23:23

What subject? Is there 2i/c role in place?

ForOliveShaker · 07/10/2024 23:25

Newrumpus · 07/10/2024 23:23

What subject? Is there 2i/c role in place?

English. Also no, I’ve been told “we don’t have the budget for offering you a 2ic role”

OP posts:
Newrumpus · 07/10/2024 23:29

English is a large core subject. However you have been successful and gained lots of experience. Do you have experience of line managing colleagues? That might the next thing you could do whilst looking for opportunities to arise.

ForOliveShaker · 07/10/2024 23:37

Newrumpus · 07/10/2024 23:29

English is a large core subject. However you have been successful and gained lots of experience. Do you have experience of line managing colleagues? That might the next thing you could do whilst looking for opportunities to arise.

Not mine managing colleagues, no that’s the only thing I don’t have but as a tlr holder I work alongside other HODS to ensure effective implementation of new ideas. I’ve managed my trainee. My issue is, how can you like manage colleagues without being a hod? Prior to hod you’re 2ic and even then you’re not necessarily line managing then either? So it’s tricky

OP posts:
Newrumpus · 08/10/2024 00:25

You could ask for this for your professional development. I would be glad to have help with line managing. Is there a junior colleague in the department you could line manage?

ForOliveShaker · 08/10/2024 05:51

Newrumpus · 08/10/2024 00:25

You could ask for this for your professional development. I would be glad to have help with line managing. Is there a junior colleague in the department you could line manage?

Unfortunately no one junior:( how else could I gain the experience

OP posts:
ForOliveShaker · 08/10/2024 05:51

Experience not respectful

OP posts:
ThanksItHasPockets · 08/10/2024 10:14

I think you've posted about this before. Yes, you can apply for HOD roles and you don't need to wait for permission. If they don't think you're ready on paper then you won't be shortlisted. I mean this kindly but at some point you will have to stop posting on MN about it and just do it. Good luck.

ForOliveShaker · 08/10/2024 22:53

ThanksItHasPockets · 08/10/2024 10:14

I think you've posted about this before. Yes, you can apply for HOD roles and you don't need to wait for permission. If they don't think you're ready on paper then you won't be shortlisted. I mean this kindly but at some point you will have to stop posting on MN about it and just do it. Good luck.

It’s just self doubt. But thank you! I feel like my hod is looking at me dubiously. Mainly because they’ve been teaching 9 years and got a hod role so I wonder if he thinks I need more time. But yes I see your point!

OP posts:
lollymad · 19/10/2024 20:01

You've done a lot, no doubt. However 3 years in (+half a term?) for a core subject really isn't very long as 2 years of that is ECT.
No harm in applying, and interviews are all good experience, just don't be too disheartened if you lose out to people with significantly more experience, and who have already completed an NPQ.
Good luck!

Hercisback1 · 19/10/2024 21:05

Slow down.
You'll be a far better HOD with a bit more experience and a different school under your belt.
Go for a second in dept role elsewhere. Sty for 2 years. Then HOD.

ForOliveShaker · 19/10/2024 23:06

lollymad · 19/10/2024 20:01

You've done a lot, no doubt. However 3 years in (+half a term?) for a core subject really isn't very long as 2 years of that is ECT.
No harm in applying, and interviews are all good experience, just don't be too disheartened if you lose out to people with significantly more experience, and who have already completed an NPQ.
Good luck!

Been shortlisted for a hod role to be fair so🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
ForOliveShaker · 19/10/2024 23:08

Hercisback1 · 19/10/2024 21:05

Slow down.
You'll be a far better HOD with a bit more experience and a different school under your belt.
Go for a second in dept role elsewhere. Sty for 2 years. Then HOD.

Not sure. I got shortlisted for a hod role and 2ic role so I wonder if I’m selling myself short with 2ic considering I’ve pretty much done that untitled my whole time at the current school I’m at. Sometimes number of years doesn’t always equate to being good at the role. I’ve shadowed a few hods at diff schools too in the time we’re given for any professional development.

OP posts:
Hercisback1 · 20/10/2024 06:45

Shadowed for a day is very different to experiencing a different school day in day out.

Sometimes number of years doesn't equate to being good at a role. But there is one hell of a correlation.

Why the rush?

ThanksItHasPockets · 20/10/2024 10:19

It certainly sounds like you have found your confidence, OP. Best of luck to you.

ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 14:04

Hercisback1 · 20/10/2024 06:45

Shadowed for a day is very different to experiencing a different school day in day out.

Sometimes number of years doesn't equate to being good at a role. But there is one hell of a correlation.

Why the rush?

I’ve been doing the role. It’s not even about shadowing. I’m essentially saying at many points I’ve done the role of an unpaid hod. It’s not about number of years in all cases. People with 20 years behind them can still be awful at their job. There’s no correlation between time and being good at your job and I’ve seen that many times in any role I’ve been in.

OP posts:
ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 14:05

I’m trying. I think being shortlisted helped. Still do wonder if I should be swaying more towards 2ic roles or if hod roles are ok to apply to.

OP posts:
Hercisback1 · 20/10/2024 14:06

Time in different schools definitely gives you more experience.

You've done the role in one school of acting HOD. So have I. Having moved to another school for a similar (non HOD) role I can see how inexperienced I was.

CJFJ1 · 20/10/2024 15:55

I think only you can know whether your skills and experience justify a HOD application, OP - the fact you've been shortlisted for a HOD job is a positive sign, of course. Different people will have progressed in their teaching careers at different rates, and that will be for different reasons.

I personally progressed to a 2nd i/c charge role at the 4 year mark in my teaching career (also a core subject) and I don't regret it. I knew I wasn't personally ready yet for HOD at that point, but the 2nd i/c role meant that I got to broaden my range of leadership and management experience whilst working under the leadership / mentorship of the HOD. I wouldn't have changed that for anything: I had exposure to a lot of the things during that time, good and bad, that hits a HOD's desk / in-tray, so to speak, without nearly as much scrutiny as a HOD would get, certainly in a core subject such as English. It was only when colleagues started telling me that I should consider a HOD role, after some time in that 2nd i/c role, that I knew I was ready for the next step up on the ladder. A significant part of being 2nd i/c and a HOD is about earning colleagues' trust.

Of course, anyone going for a HOD post is likely to have many ideas about what they'd change / introduce into a department to improve things but in my experience, senior leaders will also be looking for candidates at interview who can "walk the walk" as well as "talk the talk" in terms of managing trickier situations that may arise for a HOD. For example, what would you do if:

  • a colleague in your department is struggling with classroom management?
  • a colleague's / the department's public exam results are below expectation for the department / school?
  • a parent / pupil complains that work isn't being marked by a colleague?
  • a colleague in your department is well-known for being a naysayer and is routinely negative and critical in your department meetings?
  • (in your subject) an established colleague absolutely refuses to teach a new text you would like colleagues to teach because they are wedded to their familiar schemes of work which they've taught successfully for the last 5 - 10 years?
  • colleagues in your department complain to the SLT about aspects of your leadership?

The most convincing interviewees (and I say this from my own interview experiences, good and bad) tend to be those who can support their answers with examples drawn from experience.

Good luck.

ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 17:43

I’m actually going to answer these because I work in a relatively small team.

  • a colleague in your department is struggling with classroom management?
this has happened before, I would have a discussion with the colleague in relation to this and mention that I would be dropping into observe x class. I’d make sure to provide empathy round this too. The main thing here is to ensure the colleague does not feel targeted and offer empathy and understanding that there may be external reasons for their struggle with classroom management. I would discuss putting an informal plan in place for this colleague with small and achievable targets. This is important as setting unfair targets would mean they are unavhievavle and almost immediately going to create more stress for this staff member. The conversation should also offer a forum for them to discuss external issues that could be impacting pertinence. I’d conduct regular drop ins at scheduled times to check this colleague is meeting targets over the specified period of time. If this was not achieved by said time, I would call another meeting and explain that we may need to formalise the process, slt may need to be present in this meeting. I would then begin to encourage this individual going in and observing other colleagues.
  • a colleague's / the department's public exam results are below expectation for the department / school?
Again, review data, consider context, identify root causes (could be high proportion sen or eal in the group) get the individual to actually analyse their data and bring measurable targets to the LM meeting, discuss an actual action plan in the meeting, monitor progress through book scrutinies regularly and checking data and encourage a reflective approach.
  • a parent / pupil complains that work isn't being marked by a colleague?
so firstly, the parents need a sympathetic ear. I’d need to ensure I was understanding and explain to the parent that I appreciate their concerns and I will investigate the matter internally. I would speak to the colleague and mention that this specific issue has been brought to light. I would look at the book and have my spreadsheet with key non negotiable when it comes to the schools book marking policy and check against that. If it was subpar, I’d be providing targets for the colleague, reminding them of policy and mentioning I will be checking again on x date. Both ways id be telling the parent that either the marking is in line with policy or the child will receive more regular feedback and that they can rest assured that the progress would be monitored.
  • a colleague in your department is well-known for being a naysayer and is routinely negative and critical in your department meetings?
I have this already. I’d be speaking to them privately on a 1-1 basis and offer an open dialogue and explain to them the expectations of the department and that although there will be things they disagree with, which is understandable, they also need to understand that we are part of a team and we work together. If there is a particular reason they want to say no, they need to share that so I can support them. Therefore if they want to contribute their opinion I’m happy for them to do so, but in a positive and constructive manner that I can turn into a solution. I’d also want to ensure I have a positive team so I’d make that clear during the dialogue. Furthermore, I’d be documenting everything.
  • (in your subject) an established colleague absolutely refuses to teach a new text you would like colleagues to teach because they are wedded to their familiar schemes of work which they've taught successfully for the last 5 - 10 years?
Seen this one before, and again, it’s about opening a dialogue. We get stuck in our ways sometimes when we’re used to something and as someone who has been at a school for a while. Change is hard but necessary. Explain the rationale for change. Give support where necassary with planning or point them to cpl, remind them the text is a non negotiable, we can’t change it but I’m happy to let you incorporate some elements of how you taught the previous text into this one, if it continues to be a problem i would escalate the matter and I’d be calling a meeting with slt to explain the rationale once again but ensure they are aware of their expectations.
  • colleagues in your department complain to the SLT about aspects of your leadership?
this is sad but I know it happens. I’d make sure to listen to the complaints and acknowledge that there is always room to improve. I’d make sure to be calm and professional and take that time to self reflect and come up with some targets as to how I can be better and do better. My team is a reflection of me and my approach so sometimes, we need to know when we’re heading in the wrong trajectory. Seeking guidance from slt would be important. They’ll be more experienced than me and could help me navigate my lack of experience and learn to be more effective.

I hope these make sense. I wanted to answer them as a way of proving that I do see a lot where I am and I do liaise a lot with my hod so I’m quite aware of the procedures that are put in place. I’m happy to take feedback if you think anything is incorrect

OP posts:
ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 18:01

ThanksItHasPockets · 20/10/2024 10:19

It certainly sounds like you have found your confidence, OP. Best of luck to you.

Thank you for you kind words. It’s imposter syndrome most days but I’m trying to keep going. Maybe I’m not good enough for hod at this stage and maybe I’ll take 2ic of its offered. But I’m definitely trying to keep getting interview experience.

OP posts:
MrsHamlet · 20/10/2024 18:43

Hercisback1 · 20/10/2024 06:45

Shadowed for a day is very different to experiencing a different school day in day out.

Sometimes number of years doesn't equate to being good at a role. But there is one hell of a correlation.

Why the rush?

I think you are wasting your breath. The OP just wants to be told they're right.

swallowedAfly · 20/10/2024 19:46

So you’re one year and 6 weeks out of your ect? What are the parents complaints about you?

ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 20:16

MrsHamlet · 20/10/2024 18:43

I think you are wasting your breath. The OP just wants to be told they're right.

No I don’t need that at all, I’ve backed up my experience. But you are entitled to your opinion. We actually have hods in our team who have the same level of experience as me. Whilst it’s not common. It’s not impossible. That’s my point. You don’t have to agree with me it’s just a fact.

OP posts:
ForOliveShaker · 20/10/2024 20:18

swallowedAfly · 20/10/2024 19:46

So you’re one year and 6 weeks out of your ect? What are the parents complaints about you?

Prior to the ect framework it was the NQT. In my school, teachers who followed that programme have become HODs here and at other schools at my stage. It’s not impossible but not common. Like I said. It’s not about being told I’m right. If I’ve been shortlisted for a hod role, I’m doing something right somewhere. It’s fine if you don’t agree.

OP posts:
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