Absence related meetings

[tiredofthisshitt]

Just wondering if anyone has had challenging meetings following sickness / absence? Increasingly, female colleagues are finding themselves in a position where they have having to discuss absence issues of an intimate / gynaecological nature with male members of SLT (example - UTI’s / miscarriages and similar). I feel really strongly that this shouldn’t be allowed to happen - we are employed, not owned - and surely this is a breach of some human rights / equality law? I suspect the SLT would say they don’t demand these details, but there is a strong emphasis on ‘proving’ your absence was justified. Anyone got any thoughts or have any experience of this?

what’s your evidence please?

Sorry, do you mean what evidence is supplied in a meeting?

evidence of Increasingly, female colleagues are finding themselves in a position where they have having to discuss absence issues of an intimate / gynaecological nature with male members of SLT

So the evidence would show that

a) this is happening; and
b) it is “increasing”

I'm talking about the school where I work, and colleagues in other schools nearby.

Not something i have been aware of. i have had one absence related meeting regarding a prolapse. I simply said that it was genealogical in nature. I wasn’t probed beyond that. I haven’t been told be female friends or colleagues that they have ensured probing personal questions in absence related meetings either.

out of interest… how many days off before an absence related meeting?

Thanks. Makes me wonder if it's just a new management thing - as in, not understanding the boundaries.

In terms of triggers for amount of days - I'm not certain. I know that there is a defined amount to trigger a meeting, just not sure what they are.

One colleague was given a target not to have any sickness absence until a particular date. A strange request - please don't be ill!

@idealgift it's not me. I've not had cause to be absent. And yes - I know where to find the information. Just don't have it to hand.

That isn't the point I'm making. The point I'm making is the issue of female colleagues being in a situation where they have to disclose personal and intimate information to male managers. It's not a discussion about absence in general.

And the reason for them not simply saying, "I've been off sick. There is no need for you to support me at this point. Beyond that, it's not your concern." is what?
I don't usually need to "prove" that I've had reason to be off. If I'm sick, I'm sick. My headteacher doesn't want to, nor does she need to, know any details. If I get a sick note from the doctor, I've been explicitly told by my surgery not to share the sickness codes on them with my employer. Why not? Because it's none of their business. If it affects my ability to do my job, I will inform my employer accordingly.

We don't have any "trigger" for a meeting at my school, though. I remember that I was once told I couldn't have any more sick days for the next six months when I went back after maternity leave and DS caught and passed on every bug possible. That was at a different school, though, and I quit soon after.
I'm also no longer teaching in the UK and my employer trusts me to be honest about my sick days and not to take the piss.

This is exactly my argument. We are professionals and I resent having to give details of an illness beyond reasonable proof.

If it's becoming an issue in your school, you need to get your union involved.

One colleague was given a target not to have any sickness absence until a particular date. A strange request - please don't be ill!

Happened to me. 10 days in one year was the trigger. I worked very closely with the students who were ill/looked after them/sent them home, plus was a very stressful understaffed role so I picked up every bug going.

The process was humiliating and basically made out I was taking the piss. They noticed a 'pattern' of illness. It was generally towards the mid-end of terms, when I was so run down, and seeing as we have the sick bay room next to us where we look after the kids, it's a recipe for catching bugs.

So I was told no more sickness.

To get any time off for appts you have to show your (very personal) letter from the hospital/docs, and then it has to get approved by 78 billion people before it comes back to you, by which time, the appt has been and gone.

The place is beyond a joke. No one there takes the piss, not one. Staff drag themselves in, clearly very ill; probably so they don't have to go through all this shit!!!!

I'm going through absence process at the moment. Nothing gynecological, in fact they know exactly why I was off so much, but because I've hit a trigger point it's a formal meeting where they investigate me plus referral to occupational health.

Trigger point was 10 days over 3 or more absence periods in 12 months

Since our school became part of an academy, we have to have very intrusive 'back to work interviews' after one day of absence! Even if you literally threw up on the staff room floor that morning and had to go home, these interviews still happen. There is a 4 page document that our head has to fill in as she interviews us. Questions such as (in the vomiting scenario) 'how many times did you vomit and/or have an episode of diarrhoea during your absence from work?'

I refused to answer this question and made my head write 'absolutely none of your business and irrelevant as I am now back in work' and I signed my name next to it. So far had no response from the academy 🤣

@SpringIntoChaos good for you! I'm going to encourage this. It's appalling! And it seems to be on the increase.

Tbf I was once off with an issue I didn't really want to discuss and I needed a medical appointment to resolve. I was told I couldn't have time off without explaining exactly what the appointment was for, even though my doctor was happy to write a letter saying it was medically necessary.

I didn't have time to get into a dispute about it, due to the semi urgent nature of the appointment, so I ended up just telling them, but I was very much made to feel like I had to disclose.

I've also in the past taken time off due to my mental health (different school) and told the detail I provided wasn't enough.

I do agree that if inappropriate detail is being asked for then union reps in school should challenge this, and if people are uncomfortable in a return to work meeting they should ask to discuss it with a union rep present.

I'm really stressed about this right now. Ill and awaiting my stage 2 absence meeting. Feel I can't take time off but also in work today my lessons were a disaster as I couldn't think straight.