How to deal with unacceptable comments?

[Iviry]

Currently teaching a topic about multiculturalism in Toronto (a bit random, I know. I wonder if anyone knows which books I teach from?).

Today we were discussing the many immigrants in Toronto. One student said ‘terrorists‘.

How would you have responded to this?

I did respond btw, I‘m just wondering what others would have said

the student just shouted out “terrorist” when the word immigrant was mentioned?

how old?

14 years old. He said it to his friend, but I was right in front of him so I heard it

so when you said immigrants, he said to his friend “terrorists” ie immigrants are terrorists?

I’ve used the standard MN ‘did you mean to be so rude?’ in a similar circumstance.

Like “Bob, I’ve noticed that every time I read the word ‘Muslim’ in this book, you turn to Fred and snigger. Did you mean to do that?”

It’s a bit more than “rude”

added to which - it shows complete ignorance.

So I would say “an utterly repugnant view I have just heard X spouting”. I am not going to waste anyone’s time by repeating it but X - I hear you say anything so completely baseless and offensive in my classroom again, I will be going to the head”

And that leaves it wide open for a smart arse to say “Yep”

Okay. So they say ‘yep’ and I can deal with it. Whereas if I tell the class that the comment I’ve just heard is ‘repugnant, baseless and ignorant’ without actually saying what the comment is, then I’m going to end up with a class full of pupils who are too scared to share their views because they don’t know what I’m so offended by. Surely better to have an open discussion and address the ignorance? I’d suggest that’s one reason we teach some books?

How would you address if they said they meant to say it

it would risk taking the focus away from multiculturalism in Toronto

to the repugnant view of a 14 year old

the best way to undermine is to give no time to pure nonsense, which it is.

any of those pupils will be wanting to learn about multiculturalism in Toronto

NOT giving air time to the known racist of the class

Thanks everyone.

I said loudly so the others would hear ‘so you think that immigrants are terrorists?‘ and he sheepishly said no. I said ‘ I come from a different country to you, do you think I am a terrorist?‘. Again he said no.

I spoke to the whole class and said that immigrants are people just like you and me and calling them terrorists is not the right way to speak.

Then I moved on with the lesson.

I‘m new to teaching teenagers and unsure if I reacted in the right way.

you rather left it open for if he was a smart arse he could well have responded “yes” to your question.

do not allow for the possibility of the class being derailed by him giving that “yes” answer unless you have a bullet proof response

I disagree.

Some teenagers say inappropriate things. This is largely because some teenagers hold inappropriate views. These views have probably come from their families, and will have been ingrained over many years and many conversations. We can’t just avoid the issue, or bluntly tell them they’re ignorant / repugnant / racist; they won’t believe us, or care. We need to enter the conversation. Of course I’m not saying we should give racism a voice, rather that we should expose them to more coherent, acceptable arguments (which, again, is one of the reasons why we teach certain books?)

so… i would ask him to stay behind and for him and I to discuss

but not a cat’s chance in hell would I want the class ruined by such a fact and ignorant view that, god willing, the overwhelming majority at that age will know is nonsense

If I had been observing you, I would have spoken to you about this at the end of the lesson, as honestly, I don’t think this response was appropriate and I would never call out a child in front of the whole class for saying something like this. Teenagers are the products of their parents and more often than not problematic views you hear students sharing at school are directly taken from what they’re hearing at home. Telling a child - and humiliating them in front of the whole class by doing so - that their views are wrong also tells them that their parents are wrong, and so what you’re creating is a schism between school and home and potentially entrenching that child’s problematic belief/viewpoint even further as a response to the humiliation.

In this scenario, as no one else heard the comment, I’d have ignored it in the moment and asked the child to stay behind at the end of the lesson. I’d have repeated what I heard them say, checked with them that I heard it right - because you may not have done - and then asked them why they believe that to be true. I’d let them share their viewpoint and then depending on what they said, take it from there. You don’t know where that view has come from or what personal or familial circumstances have led to such a view. Perhaps a family member has been a victim of a terrorist attack committed by an immigrant. Unlikely but it could be the case. Let the student speak first and make it a conversation, as @Russoooooo says. No one with a bigoted view ever changes their mind by being told they’re wrong. We need to talk with children about these sorts of issues, not at them.

A great poem you might want to share with the class in a future lesson is ‘Refugees’ by Bill Bilston. (Get the class to read it forwards and then reveal it can also be read backwards). I’ve found it provokes some powerful discussions about looking at different perspectives and encouraging empathy.

I’ve been teaching for nearly 20 years and I think you handled it just fine.
An alternative view would have been ‘I heard your very offensive remark and I will be speaking to you at the end of the lesson.’

It Is important for immigrants/refugees to know you have their back and won’t tolerate racist comments like this.

EnidSpyton

when a child’s/parents views are clearly wrong it’s not wrong to call them out. Some parents let their kids use the ‘n’ word to black people or say gay people are disgusting and will go to hell.
do you honestly think those views shouldn’t be called out in the classroom?
These aren’t debatable views like the Israeli/Palestine issue or whether multi culturalism in general enhances countries. Those like the one in the OP are vile racist or homophobic statements and children need to know they are not acceptable things to say in a civilised society.

@Gymrabbit I do think 'calling out' is always unhelpful, to be honest.

As I said above, no one ever had their mind changed by being told they were wrong and humiliated in front of others. This often only entrenches people in their viewpoints.

In this case, I would not have called out this student in front of the class because the comment was whispered to the person next to them and not heard by anyone else. They didn't choose to make their view public, so I would also make the same choice and speak to them about it privately.

If the child had said 'immigrants are terrorists' loudly in front of everyone, I would have stopped and said, 'Thanks for that contribution, X. You've said that you think immigrants are terrorists. Can you tell us why you think that?'

I wouldn't judge the statement, use emotive words to describe their views, or become upset by it. I would instead encourage them to share their reasoning, and then allow the class to discuss it, with me managing the discussion to keep things calm and respectful.

In this case, the thing is, some immigrants are indeed terrorists. It's not a wholly untrue statement. So unpicking the intention behind the comment and allowing it to be explored is key to helping the child understand why what they've said is problematic. Just telling a child 'that's a horrible thing to say' or 'that's really offensive' doesn't actually educate them.

EnidSpyton

Do you work in a school where there are large amounts of ‘immigrants’ - do you really think it’s acceptable to sit in a class with a refugee and have a calm debate about whether he is a terrorist or not?

And do you always ‘thank’ children for making incredibly racist comments in class?

And does your ‘let’s discuss offensive views’ approach, apply to everything? If a child said ‘all teachers are whores’ would you calmly discuss his statement on the grounds that there are probably a few teachers in the world who are prostitutes so it isn’t an entirely untrue statement and is worthy of debate….

@Gymrabbit I actually work in an international school, with children from pretty much every country in the world, so most of them are immigrants! As such, I have students with wildly differing experiences and viewpoints on all manner of topics due to the political, religious, cultural and historical environments they have been exposed to. In one of my classes currently, I have Ukrainian and Russian children sitting next to each other. In another, I have several Israeli children and a Palestinian. So what would be a 'contentious' view in a UK classroom filled with largely white British children is actually far more nuanced in a classroom filled with children from all over the world. A conversation about terrorism and immigration is not such a straightforward conversation to have when you perceive a group of people living in your country to be both illegal immigrants and terrorists, is it?

I therefore don't consider the statement immigrants are terrorists to be racist, because for some children I teach, it's simply a fact as far as their life experience has taught them. I consider it to be a contentious viewpoint that may be informed by personal experience, that is worthy of respectful discussion. For my students, if that view had been raised in my classroom, I would gently remind the class that for most of them, they are actually immigrants to the UK. So if all immigrants are terrorists, that would make most of them terrorists too. How do they feel about that statement now? And then go from there. Having a refugee in your classroom shouldn't make any difference. Many children will have grandparents or parents who were immigrants if they are not immigrants themselves. Having the chance to explore and talk about that to help the child who views immigrants as terrorists to see that immigrants are just ordinary people like them looking for a better life somewhere else, will be much more truly educational and transformative than shouting at them or telling them they're racist. We shouldn't shy away from having difficult conversations in our classrooms.

I wouldn't really be happy to label any child's views as being racist, homophobic, etc. I don't think most young people have enough knowledge or experience of the world to have formed deliberately discriminatory views. They are merely parroting what they have heard elsewhere, or speaking from personal experience. So having discussions allows their experience to be developed and challenged in a way that helps them see new ways of thinking, rather than being shouted at and shut down.

As for your comment about teachers being whores, I can't ever imagine a scenario where that would come up. If it did, yes, I would treat it in exactly the same way I would any other problematic statement. Repeat it, and ask why they think that. A child saying 'teachers are whores' is probably looking for a very different response to a child saying something about immigrants and terrorists. That's an overtly attention seeking statement that I wouldn't want to gratify by getting upset or making a big deal out of.

EnidSpyton

many thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail to my points.

I can only assume (having never worked in an International school) that they are very different in both students, staff and procedures to urban state schools.