Behaviour- what is going on?

[Boudicasbeard]

So we were having a chat about behaviour in the staffroom the other day and it got me to thinking about what is actually happening at the moment.

When did the culture shift so far that the standard amongst most kids is now- don’t have to do as you tell me? And the toilet situation is nuts wild. When did they all decide that they wanted to live in the loos at all times.

Is it phones? Changes in parenting? Lockdown? I don’t know but I would like to finish a set of instructions once without being interrupted by five kids different kids who think they are hecklers at a comedy night.

Dunno but I work in an independent where behaviour has always been great but it is slipping. Noticeably so. I am guessing lockdown but I can’t explain why that would logically have changed behaviour today.

My working theory is that they all looked after themselves online for lockdown and now completely lack proper socialisation.

I think have spent part of every lesson this year talking to all of my classes about what counts as appropriate behaviour for school- they just don’t seem to know or care.

I think the slide began before covid. I think it has a lot to do with smart phones and the internet. Kids are used to online streaming, instantaneous entertainment, blurting out whatever they want online. Online culture is often appalling, if you look at content on Tik Tok, for example, children are exposed to content they aren't mature enough to judge, often it encourages / challenges them to behave poorly.

Far too many parents don't properly control access to the Internet, smart phones and gaming so huge numbers of children have phones and access to online platforms in their bedrooms and go online all night, then come to school exhausted and displaying characteristics of adhd even though they don't actually have the condition.

Culturally, shifts in parenting that are more child centred have made parents much more emotional and sensitive about any perceived criticism of their child. They go on the defensive and refuse the accept that teenagers in particular can be naughty, mischievous, tell lies to their parents etc. I was a good teenager really, loved my family, worked hard but also lied through my teeth to my parents to sneak off and get up to mischief with my friends too.

Then there's the catastrophic changes to the curriculum and ways schools are judged. Too many students are being pushed into academic subject they cannot cope with rather than vocational courses that were of more value to them. Too many children with extreme needs are being kept in schools because there is no provision elsewhere or more frequently it takes 3 years to get a diagnosis and in the meantime they are just left in school.

In my school members of slt just shrug and say 'That's the way they are now'.

The first thing that needs to happen is a huge review of the curriculum and a huge injection of funding for support services. Then schools can operate more effectively, expectations can rise and then parents can get on board.

@WonderingWanda I completely agree.

Young people have just lived through a complete collapse of adult authority and mass hysterical fear which resulted in the social institutions they rely not functioning. This is bound to negatively impact their ability to trust adults and to trust the assumptions that society relies on. It will take a while to repair this damage.

@WonderingWanda

I think you’re right. This feels like it has been brewing a long time. One of the things Give was warned about when he reformed the curriculum was how it narrowed the choices for students

But I think online culture has a lot to do with it. I know many adults who struggle to tell the difference between what they read online and real life- no wonder kids can’t draw the line.

@wanderingwanda I agree with your thoughts.
However, I would add that really poor parenting has made an impact too. At parents’ evening I notice that a lot of parents don’t seem to really know much at all about their child’s life. There just doesn’t seem to be a dialogue or any rapport between parent and child in a lot of cases. You get the feeling that a lot of teenagers are left to get on with it without any adult steering. Many of my emails - bad or good- are greeted with silence.
I have a teenager myself who doesn’t WANT my intervention and resists it. He’d rather that I didn’t make him join us at mealtimes and have a conversation. But he NEEDS my intervention because he is an adolescent.
So maybe we are living in a culture where young people are being given what they want by their parents rather than what they need. Because it’s actually easier not to force reticent teens to be wholesome members of a family with responsibility for others.
So suddenly education is ONLY being pushed at school rather than as a wider experience of growing up guided by adults, and there is intense pushback. Parents are informed but don’t actually have any insight, expertise or influence with their kids, so just lash out at the school.
Or is this just in my particular school?!! (Some amazing parents, but they are in the minority I have to say)

It’s not major behaviours issues that are bothering me, but the low level issues, particularly kids interrupting my instruction to ask a totally irrelevant question.

“Bur I had my hand up”

Yes, but what you wanted to say wasn’t remotely related to what I was talking about. Grrrrrrrr.

Same.

The rot had settled in well before Covid. No, I think it is because of these three reasons.

We rightlyfully told a generation of parents and teachers that corporal punishment was no longer allowed, and while smacking is still legal in England it is heavily frowned upon. The rise of Chidline and the NSPCC have been forces for good, but not enough I feel was done to educate parents on how to discipline their children without resorting to violence leaving something of a void.

The second factor is the breakdown of the family unit and more widely the community. 30-40 years ago it was the norm for 3 generations of the same family to live under one roof, and because things like divorce were harder to obtain, couples generally stuck it out longer and tried to make things work. Now it isn't uncommon for a group of siblings to have 3 different fathers. We've also become more selfish as a society (particulary thanks to Thatcherism) and the 'I'm alright Jack attitude,' which isn't helped with the general defensiveness of today's parents. Years ago you could tell off a random kid for littering and tell them to put their rubbish in the bin. Nowadays you're likely to be excused of being a peado or get an earful from mum and dad.

Lastly is the instantenous and toxic nature of social media and games aimed at adults which children should not be playing. I have seen this with adults and their attention spans too. Everything is NOW, NOW, NOW. This is not at all conducive to learning where you often have to be patient, quiet and attentive. The addictive nature of these platforms often means that children are going to bed well into the earely hours of the morning due to a lack of adult supervision, which again is caused by stalling wages necessitating the need for 2 parents to work when 40 years ago a family could survive on one breadwinner. Parents have never worked so hard before for so little money and so little leisure time in return.

I think the fashion for 'restorative justice' behaviour management systems has a lot to answer for. My SLT are actively uncomfortable with setting boundaries and enforcing them. If we tell a child off, we are more likely to get into trouble than the child. Then they call endless working parties to discuss why behaviour is going down the pan.....

I think the breakdown of the idea of family life is disappearing for older primary and secondary kids- there isn't the same amount of time doing things as a family unit with all the little negotiations and compromises that that entails.
Children increasingly have their own worlds in their bedrooms where they are king, watching and doing whatever they want. They don't have to sit through someone else's choices on the tv so why would they tolerate sitting through something they find boring in school? Numerous posts on MN talk of parents cooking different dinners for different members of the family as each child has their own list of foods they will not eat. Children eat in front of their tv rather than together as a family. Then, once in school, we ask them to be able to sit still, not speak unless they are invited to do so and bow their will to that of an adult. No wonder they struggle!

I think the restorative justice/ pandering parent thing is definitely a big part of it. Some students seem completely uncomfortable with being told ‘no’ and when you bring up the behaviour with the parent their first response is ‘well how much do you help him’

Well, I would be able to help him with his work if he ever listened to instructions or made any effort at all the start to the work. Until he’s done those two things then I can’t help him.

I have started being as honest as possible with kids because I don’t thing they get that honesty at home. If you are rude then people won’t like you. No one has to give you what you want. Politeness costs nothing and will help you get on in life. These aren’t wild statements but they seem completely alien to many children.

Parents are also a massive issue for us.
We are giving students very fixed boundaries, very clear and very clear sanctions. Nothing "extreme" (I don't think!).
The amount of parents that ring and complain about the sanctions with the most awful rudeness and attitudes.

In the last few weeks alone apparently it is ok to:

1. Repeatedly punch and kick another student.
2. Run down corridors screaming and almost push over a disabled member of staff.
3. Cheer on and laugh at a fight
4. Kick the toilet door hard enough to damage it because they were locked (due to vandalism)
5. Be completely defiant when asked to do something.

And we are just so deeply unfair to sanction these...

I have worked as a long term supply teacher in various primary schools. The vast majority of these schools are "brainwashed" institutions, with increasingly younger inexperienced Heads, who believe that we shouldn't tell children off, we shouldn't shout, and that we are better off being "understanding, calm, sensitive to needs, restorative" and the rest of it.

In these schools, biscuits are given to naughty children because they are "anxious". Children stormed out of class, swore, were disrespectful, had fights, had arguments, and were completely feral, of course all in varying degrees from really bad to just low level behaviours. This has been the case pre and post covid in my experience.

However, I have been working in a "rare" school for a year, with an "Old School" Headteacher who is in his sixties. His deputy is also in her sixties. Children face the wall if they misbehave, they are shouted at when deserved, teachers are empowered to be really strict. I'm allowed to shout, I'm allowed to demand silence, I'm empowered and encouraged to insist that children face the front and listen attentively with arms folded. Work must be their best or they stay in every break time and lunch until it is completely re-done to their best of their ability.

The Head and Deputy enter classrooms and will fiercely support, demanding the children follow the rules and are respectful. Any child who doesn't, is immediately outside the classroom getting roundly told off. I'm allowed to tell parents that we expect good behaviour in this school. The SLT tell parents we expect the best here, like it or lump it. Fidget toys are banned, phones are banned from the school site, no ELSA units, no nursery clubs, just one ELSA who is also very strict and doesn't do "namby pamby". Needless to say, the school has just received the best SATS results in the city, and an outstanding OFSTED report. I don't want to leave this wonderful school. I don't know any others like it and it will be a sad day when the two great leaders at top retire.

Most Headteachers are too scared to tell parents to like it or lump it. They bow down to parents, tickle their tummies and the children get away with their awful behaviour, giving out some kind of excuse. My Headteacher will not tolerate bad behaviour and he tells parents it's my way or the highway. This works. The school has fantastic behaviour. I don't know any school like it.

I think it is worth bearing in mind a global pandemic is huge event, and I don't think we really dealt with it well as a society. There was lots of pressure to get back to normal very quickly, and also at times schools were very unpredictable places.

The end of the 20-21 school year and the start of the 21-22 school year was very unsettled in a lot of schools with people having to self isolate a lot and a lot of unpredictability in school. I don't think students respond well to this.

Even now I think staff shortages etc have led to a lot of unpredictability in some schools - and we know students tend to behave worse for supply teachers.

I do think at least some of the behaviour is essentially boundary pushing to find where the line is. I remember being told when I was training that some students will push and push until they find a hard boundary, and knowing where the boundaries are helps them feel secure. Over the last few years, boundaries have regularly changed and that may lead to more students pushing to find "the line".

I am an ECT and recently had my transition days in a new school. I'll be teaching year 3. Seriously feel overwhelmed. The behaviour on those 3 days was awful. Some children struggling to sit properly on a chair, slumping and slouching. Crying if told no, needing a drink every 5 minutes then the toilet every 5 minutes. Data is shocking. Speech issues, 1 in pull ups. Parental engagement/support none existent.

I'm feeling very shocked and worried.

I think Covid is being used to excuse behaviour. It started long before then! From my observations there's been a cultural shift in society in general. There's an increasing tendency among parents to have reduced expectations of children- this sense that they can't sit still, listen or be moulded in any way. There is mass acceptance of poor and limited diet, poor speech, bad manners etc. If teachers discipline a child then parents complain, homework is not done, books are not read, none can hold a pencil correctly as 'children should be allowed to choose their own way' and so many parents expect special treatment for their child. Add to that, that schools is so dull these days- endless PowerPoints and a rigid curriculum that's not necessarily age appropriate and too full that teachers can't fit in the endless additions of pointless initiatives so everything is superficial and rushed. Kids are bored, they have no time to socialise properly, and escaping to the toilet is the most interesting part of most days.

And it's not just behaviour in school that is changing- several times over the last few weeks I've seen several people just stopping their cars and urinating in full view at the side of the road- on the motorway, in the city and even up against someones garden wall in my village! Traditional British values are becoming a thing of the past as we descend into a third world mindset!

I think there are no longer any boundaries & that’s the problem. Every child can do as they please as they’re simply “expressing themselves” In reality, this means that no one has or shows any consideration for anyone else. It’s noticeable generally in society. Heaven help us when the current cohort of Primary School children become adults. (I know it’s not ALL of them but it’s a large swathe).