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The staffroom

Whether you're a permanent teacher, supply teacher or student teacher, you'll find others in the same situation on our Staffroom forum.

private/state

2 replies

wtd22 · 18/06/2023 18:10

I'm sorry to hijack this area, which I know is for teachers.
There have been a lot of threads recently on the other education threads about people disappointed with the teaching and experience at top private junior schools/preps, and also people tutoring on top.
But there have also been a lot of threads on here about how hard it is teaching at the moment because of behaviour getting worse after covid, and just terrible conditions for teachers and pupils.
So...for teachers, maybe with experience of both, what would you recommend to parents right now? I know most people can't afford private school so it's irrelevant for them, but if they could (and if you could for your kids, leaving aside any moral questions?)

OP posts:
user50316 · 19/06/2023 10:11

Hi, not a teacher but my cousin and lots of my friends are so we sought advice from them. We were in the same predicament, in particular as my son has SEN. We've gone with 'state plus' for now - they're at a fantastic primary school and then they have tutoring on top from an amazing company who helps them with 11+ prep (we're considering grammar for our eldest as our local high school has a very bad reputation!) but also just generally helping them with homework or their maths and english. We were considering a move due to my partner's work, and in that instance we were going to opt for private prep schools for our kids.
I have friends who work at top private schools and their view is that the teaching isn't really any better (most of the students are tutored outside of school), and even the class sizes aren't always that much smaller, but there can be more in terms of extra curricular. Our local private prep has a lot of quite serious social issues and problems with parents etc, so that was just a no-go for us!
The other thing for us to consider was possible increases in fees. We didn't want to put them in and then have to take them out! We invest a lot of money in our tutors but they're worth every penny.

ImAMinion · 24/06/2023 21:54

I teach in a private prep that goes from nursery (2+) to Year 8. Have also worked in state (as a TA however, not a teacher).

What would I recommend? It varies too much.

What I think parents need to realise is that the teachers in private schools don’t go to a special training centre to become super duper teachers who can perform miracles. They come from the same training as the rest.

Likewise the tutoring. What I find hilarious is that dire desperate feeling so many private school parents have that they must tutor their child to the hilt to get the best gcse / A Level results. Private secondary children do not take a different extra hard set of exams, they take the same exams as their state counterparts. Plenty of children get straight or mostly A’s and A* s (what are these grades now? 9?) with no tutoring and a totally state education. A bright child who works hard in a private school can also get these grades. Likewise plenty pass the 11+ with minimal outside help and state primary education. Tutoring can certainly be unnecessary and done in a panic by anxious parents.

So what does my school offer that’s different to state?

  • a higher budget, you only have to calculate the fees by number of pupils to work this out, plus additional income from the facilities being rented out.
  • higher budget means more facilities. Indoor pool for weekly lessons. A proper sports hall with a little gym, Astro, tennis courts, acres of fields, a theatre, two proper science labs, 3 playgrounds (as in climbing frames, swings, slides etc), two computer labs and enough iPads that the whole class can be using them at once and year 6 upwards have one each full time.
  • Class is half the size. I have 16 in my reception class. They get so much more time.
  • No SATS. We can focus on our curriculum as opposed to passing national tests.
  • Curriculum freedom. This is huge. For us it means a much more creative approach is allowed.
  • A ridiculous amount of extra curricular clubs.
  • A lot of sport and weekly fixtures. Everyone plays and represents the school and has opportunity to improve.

To be honest, in agreement with above the teaching isn’t generally any better but it’s also not worse - this is such a variable and like every school in the country is varies from teacher to teacher. I tend to find my colleagues who have worked in the state sector are more resilient, patient, versatile and realistic then my colleagues who have only worked in the private sector when it comes to challenging behaviour, SEN and children who academically struggle.

I don’t see myself as any better than a reception state teacher. I still have to deal with the challenges that arise, some the same and some different due to a price tag being attached. But I also have an added pressure that private school children are generally expected to be ahead and many parents expect this. My curriculum is often matching what a state year 1 class are doing. What some of my colleagues will deem as behind is what my state colleagues would deem as pretty average.

SEN provision is interesting across the private sector. We have two Sencos, and many additional needs we can cater for well. We have some ASD children who benefit highly from the small classes, large open spaces and array of sports that they don’t require much further intervention to manage. We also can work well with dyslexic children, have a child with dyspraxia, cerebral palsy and can support lesser able children in general.

Where we “struggle“ is that we cannot access a lot of additional needs services because we are a private school. 1:1 funding is still bloody hard for us to get for children with EHCPs and many parents wrongly assume that we can just get a 1:1 being private, that’s not the case. We are cut off from a lot of things that state schools can get and that means ultimately there are some children sadly that we can’t meet the needs of. Extreme behavioural difficulties related to ASD and ADHD is a classic example. Some we can handle, some we cannot.

The whole system is currently designed that children who have difficulties accessing a regular school life and curriculum and can’t work in that environment have to prove it’s not suitable by basically falling flat and having a horrible time before the LA says “yeah ok you could probably do with specialist help and a specialist unit / school”. Private school fees won’t fix that problem. And whilst the budget is higher (which makes parents mistakenly believe that unlimited help and adult 1:1 can be provided) they also cost significantly more to run. All those extras that make a parent choose private cost a substantial amount of money and it’s a competitive environment where schools have to keep investing.

My eyes have been opened wide since my time at my prep. The state school I was at was the polar opposite financially.

So what would I recommend?

if you can afford it without loosing out on other aspects of life and you’re not at financial risk, I would say consider it. The small classes are a huge benefit, much more attention and things can be tailored that bit more to bring every child to their own potential. Curriculum freedom is a huge plus. Brighter children will get that strong push. Many have amazing facilities that just give some lovely opportunities (I would have loved to have been in school productions like ours as a child). Life for staff can often be better (not promised it again will vary) - but many private school staff will benefit from perks that state schools, don’t have. They succeed largely by results so you know the curriculums are designed to get them to their next step.

But don’t expect miracles. Like any school, state or private can bring out a child’s best but that doesn’t mean a promise of making your child a genius. You can’t buy intelligence. You also can’t buy social skills, manners, and your fees don’t mean that you can step back from parenting and expect the school to do the lot ( not saying that’s what OP does but sadly for a few this happens). Amazing caring teachers are everywhere across the board - state or private. Private schools are also often more traditional and very formal and pushy in approach (again school by school, teacher by teacher) and this just won’t work for every child.

They are also a bubble. Has to be said.

So I would recommend parents look at the offerings around them. Tour all schools that your likely to get into and overall go by the people and the atmosphere and the ethos. If fees are going to put you close to the edge I would say don’t even think about it it’s not worth it.

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