When do you give up trying?

[aliceincumberland]

Rejected yet again today from a DHT position.

No feedback, just "not the successful candidate".

Feedback from previous failures has been "you were great, we're just going to go with someone else", "you were so so close but we're appointing someone else" and "please, please don't give up - you'll get there".

Feel like shit and confidence is in shreds now. Feel a total dickhead for keeping trying when I'm obviously not cut out for it.

When is enough enough?

Oh and btw, I namechanged for this in case anybody wants to point out that I don't have any previous posts.

I went with this because apparently 'aliceisatotalfuckingembarrassingfailure' was taken.

Oh it’s crap isn’t it. So Frustrating and time consuming applying for jobs with all the prep and time off blah blah. I’ve just finally got the job I wanted, after a difficult 18 months applying for things that I’m on paper perfect for and getting rejected and in my case it was purely them wanting exactly what I could offer (teaching hours for my subject and the experience for the management role) and I was snapped up. You will get there don’t give up!

Also, I’ve realised I didn’t answer your question about when to give up. I think we should talk more openly about jobs we don’t get and reflect on that process.

Some appointments are completely political. You’ve got no chance because they’ve already made up their mind (happened very painfully for me this year with an internal application, and it’s been hard)

Sometimes you and the school are not a good fit. I’ve gone for jobs and not got them and been relieved.

Sometimes it’s got absolutely nothing to do with you and all to do with factors completely out of your control. They need someone with specific experience and you don’t have it but the other candidate does.

Sometimes we are the problem-I had a dreadful interview in 2017 and I cringe when I think of it now. I was just all over the place.

do you have an SLT person you can trust to be truthful and go through your application with you? It could be that you’re not wording it the way they want. It’s all about strategy nowadays, less so about the teaching!

Sending positive thoughts your way. Feel free to DM to vent!

These are all good points, thank you.
My headteacher is great and very supportive as is my previous head who is a referee. Neither of them can understand why I'm not getting anything.
The application is fine because I usually get to interview.

That’s good you have people on your side and that you’re getting interviews. Throwing some random things out there:

Are you being too ‘nice’ in the interview? DHT involves making tough decisions, dealing with difficult staff situations/parents/safeguarding, are you talking enough about your resilience and management experience?

type of school you currently work in, vs type of school you are applying for? EG selective to non selective, state to independent?

what’s your current specialty/role? Are you pastoral/academic/data/6th form? Where are the gaps?

can you do an NQH leadership qualification (or talk about wanting to do one 🤣)

sorry if any of these things are way off the mark, just thinking out loud, sending lots of supportive vibes your way.

Thank you - it's very kind

I'm primary so the structure is a little bit different but my current role is SMT and I have NPQSL.

I suspect part of the issue is that my current role is a non-traditional curriculum/ pastoral blend rather than leading a specific key stage which is the usual route up the ladder.

That sounds like it could well be the reason. Career wise I’ve done things in a slightly funny order, so have masses of experience of certain things; but not much of others. It’s so frustrating, but the fact you’re getting interviews is a really good sign - don’t give up!

I am also failing to get promoted in primary too. The 'you were fantastic but someone just pipped you' feedback is crap isn't it. If your head is backing you then don't give up. It will happen one day.

I'm sorry to hear that, @Primaryfailuretoo but kind of relieved it isn't just me.
I feel like this is last chance saloon - I'm too old really 😕

Not quite the same but my previous school appointed 2 AHTs in the time I was there. Both were appointments from within the MAT. I am not saying they were a done deal to start with but I do think those candidates probably had a bigger chance of getting the role than anyone else on the day.

Are there any roles coming up within your MAT that you could apply for?

I wouldn't give up if it's something you really want - I think it's a very hard jump to make and it may take several tries before you get there.

I'm in a single academy trust so we don't have a MAT.
The latest 'no' was from a school within the local cluster, where the HT had actually asked me to apply....
Anyway, onwards and upwards...

How many jobs have you interviewed for? What made a difference for me was focusing on interview technique (from stuff like Ted talks, not teaching things specifically) and thinking about how body language can influence people. If you get to interview, they essentially know you can answer the questions so it's almost how much they like you. It really changed my mindset as I'd be so focused on answering the questions perfectly. I don't think I'm naturally charismatic - I'm more a safe pair of hands - but in interviews it's obviously about first impressions. A bit of a different take but perhaps it will help you.

I spent years trying to get a PT teaching job closer to home. Like you, I looked good on paper and had lots of interviews. Like you, I was often the 2nd choice.

In the end, I got 2 job offers almost on the same day! One school 10 mins away and the other 20 mins away.

It will happen eventually. When it's the right time and fit 🤞

Don't give up @aliceincumberland, just treat it as lightly as you can. You sound dedicated and could obviously do the job brilliantly.

I recently tried for a SLT position and didn't even get through to the second round. From chatting to other candidates, it's really competitive even for perceived tougher schools. As mentioned in another post, you have to be the perfect fit i.e. fit the unwritten job spec as well as the one on paper.

One thing that my DHT mentioned, was that there's a time-scale to these things, which freaked me out slightly being in my early 40's and having had a career break. Not sure if other people agree with this (hopefully not!) but keep applying @aliceincumberland , just try and conserve your emotional energy.

Save yourself the hassle from the brain-dead xenophobic SLT. Go supply and if you are a good teacher they will come to their senses and come to the realisation you are indispensable.

Fortunately I have respect for my school's SLT and they are great. But so many schools nowadays have these 20 something slts who smile with their mouth not face.

That's really interesting about the 'timescale'.
I'm late 40s, having had a career pre-teaching. Do you think this counts against me?

I think ultimately it is down to being the right person on the day. What one school turns down another school might want ie I know when on a panel as a governor there are always conversations around ‘the staff team we have no have x and we dont have y so lets look for y’ - it isnt always as straight forward as a skill outlined on the JD.

Don’t give up, the right opportunity will come!
It’s annoying especially when the HT had asked you to apply - it was clearly not their sole decision unless another applicant outperformed you? It does make you feel like proper shit though, I’ve been there in my career so I know exactly how you feel!
Late 40s isn’t an age to go against you, it seems like you have plenty of experience. What’s the chances of the Deputy role becoming vacancy available in your school and what is the likelihood that you would be appointed into it?
You could always wait around for that one?