maths lead in primary school - TLR??

[pasinphoebe]

As the title says really, anyone been or currently is the Maths lead in a primary school ? Or perhaps any SLT might know.
Should there be a TLR attached to this role?
Rather confused. NEU/NASUWT suggest min TLR 1 is £8,000 … 🤔

hopeful bump? 😫

TLR1 is what you would expect as a head of maths in an 11-16 or 11-18 secondary school!

It shouldn't be the case, but there are plenty of Maths leads who don't receive a TLR at all. You would be doing very well to get a TLR2.

Entirely dependent on school size, and expectations of the role within your school.

Both very useful thank you for the input! A colleague is being paid TLR3 … it might be that they are lucky to even get that but the interpretation of TLR3 is that it is meant for
temporary projects eg tutoring. however both your points are interesting and valid.

You are correct that TLR3 are supposed to be time-limited and the school shouldn’t really be paying it as a permanent arrangement.

TLR 1 is reserved for those line-managing a significant number of people, which is why they are rare in primary. I don’t understand where you have got the impression that it would be payable to a primary maths lead.

I don’t mean to sound bitchy, by the way! I am genuinely curious.

Why the exclamation marks? In a primary school every child is taught at least 5 hours of maths a week. So every teacher has to teach at least 5 hours of maths a week. In a large primary school this could be up to 25 teachers. As a maths lead you may be responsible for the training, monitoring and subsequent support of all these members of staff as well as up to 40 or more TAs. You would also be accountable for the progress of all the maths classes, have to deal with ofsted deep dives and meet termly with governors to have your operational plan scrutinised.

All this responsibility often comes with little release time and on top of the teaching and planning every area of the curriculum for your own class. Please don't assume that secondary teachers have it harder.

I am secondary trained but work cross-phase so I’m very, very familiar with the requirements of a core subject lead in primary schools and the absolutely appalling absence of proper remuneration or time in return for those responsibilities in most cases. I empathise with your frustration but you’re coming at the wrong person.

TLR1 specifically requires the holder to have “line management responsibility for a significant number of people”. I have never encountered a primary maths lead on TLR1 and this was the reason for the exclamation mark (singular). I’m happy to be proven wrong.

It’s unbelievably depressing that on the night when we have learnt of the government’s insulting pay offer and there might be some solidarity within the profession I’m responding to a cross-phase swipe.

And this is why there's such pay disparity between primary and secondary.

In secondary you're not expected to take on extra responsibility without a payment and/or a reduction in your timetable.

In primary you're expected to lead a subject you have no expertise in to the same level as a secondary HOD with little to no release time and then you're scoffed at if you think that level of responsibility should come with extra pay.

No scoffing here, I assure you.

@ThanksItHasPockets (Popsy reference??)

I saw your other post. You may have an understanding of it but for many people we're 'only' primary teachers! This culture of being expected to do so much for absolutely nothing drives me mad - and yet the difference is only going to grow. There will never be the money in primary to pay people fairly as there is in secondary.

Also, it drives me mad when secondary/non teaching people don't realise that in primary we don't have the massive management structure/pastoral support to do all the parts of the job that you don't have to do in secondary!

Grrrrr. Not that this is a primary vs secondary post. I would never dream of working in a secondary and would never comment on situations in secondary. I just wish people with no experience (not you if you have experience) would refrain from passing comment on primary issues if they don't understand how a primary works.

I completely get it @teaandbiscuitsforme and I think most secondary colleagues have very little appreciation of the situation in primaries.

@ThanksItHasPockets no worries at all, I think a silly mistake forgetting which way the numbers work for TLR. (I blame my overworked and underpaid brain) so yes realistically it’s TLR2 but seems that not many are getting TLR2 either. No time out either .. doesn’t seem worth the hassle for them!
solidarity to you all, secondary and primary, not great news coming out this evening

No TLRs at all in my primary.

Understood! It is totally illogical that M1 is less than M3, and UPS1 is less than UPS3, but TLR1 is significantly more than TLR3.

When I started teaching core subjects definitely attracted a TLR (2 so around 2.5k).

But this hasn’t been the case for at least the last 10 years now. Until recently I led Maths on a 0.6 contract! Very unlikely to get a TLR just for subject leadership nowadays.

No TLRs at all in my primary either.

No TLRs at my primary.

Or subject release time!

I cannot fathom why anyone would be willing to be a lead for Maths or English without a TLR. It is a massive amount of responsibility.

I do because I think it is important that maths is taught well and I it gives me some control over this. It also puts me in a stronger position as an older and expensive teacher not to get bullied out of my job. It is a lot of extra work. However, I could and would do a whole lot more if I was paid properly for the role.

Because there's no career progression in primary and leading a core subject is one of the very few ways you can work your way up and at least have had some leadership experience when applying for leadership positions.

I also agree with wanting it to be taught properly.

At this point I'd take regular release time over a TLR anyway. The additional workload is ridiculous when you're in class full time.

Because someone has to do it - we only have 3 classes and one of the teachers is an ECT. That means we have to lead 4 subjects each and the head has a couple. It's ridiculous and not particularly less work because it's a small school (in fact many things are more complicated/time-consuming because you have to adapt to mixed year groups, for which the curriculum wasn't written).